Like Whatever Gen-X
Remember the 1980s and 1990s and all things Gen-X. Take a stroll down memory lane, drink from a hose, and ride until the street lights come on. We discuss the past, present, and future of the forgotten generation. From music to movies and television, to the generational trauma we all experienced we talk about it all. Take a break from today and travel back to the long hot summer days of nostalgia. Come on slackers, fuck around and find out with us!
Like Whatever Gen-X
I Do Not Like This Grown-Up Scam, I Do Not Like It Sam-I-Am
On the 65th anniversary of "Green Eggs and Ham," we unpack the complicated legacy of Dr. Seuss with both nostalgia and critical awareness. Did you know this beloved classic was written on a $50 bet using only 50 unique words? Or that Dr. Seuss invented the term "nerd"?
Our conversation explores why six Dr. Seuss books were removed from publication in 2021, sparking passionate debate about how we should handle problematic content from our cultural past. Is erasing history the answer, or should we use these moments as teaching opportunities? We don't hold back on our opinions about whitewashing history versus acknowledging mistakes and growth.
The episode takes unexpected turns through childhood memories, cultural reflection, and surprising revelations about Dr. Seuss's political messaging - like Yertle the Turtle being an allegory for Hitler! We also examine what made his work so enduring, from his creative wordplay to his distinct artistic style.
For Gen X listeners who grew up with these books, this episode offers a thought-provoking blend of nostalgia and modern perspective. For younger listeners, it's a window into understanding how cultural standards evolve while appreciating the creativity that made Dr. Seuss a household name for generations.
Whether you're Team "Ban the Books" or Team "Teach the Context," this conversation will make you think differently about childhood classics and how we navigate problematic elements of our shared cultural heritage.
#genx #80s #90s https://youtube.com/@likewhateverpod?si=ChGIAEDqb7H2AN0J
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Two best friends. We're talking the past, from Mystic to Arcades. We're having a blast Teenage dreams, neon screens, it was all rad and no one knew me Like you know. It's like whatever. Together forever, we're never the best ever Laughing and sharing our stories. Clever, we'll take you back. It's like whatever.
Speaker 2:Welcome to Like Whatever, a podcast for, by and about Gen X. I'm Nicole and this is my BFF, heather. Hello, so we were talking before this trying to figure out what interesting things we could talk about from this week, and we're boring.
Speaker 3:This week we are very boring this week the only fun stuff I had was the end of the White Marlin Open, which I think it did make national headlines because Michael Jordan's boat came in on Saturday and he came in second place. He won $400,000. It was actually really cool. So the way they do it is the the harbor. It's real small. It's kind of small, and normally he trucks his fish over.
Speaker 3:Anything that comes off of his boat comes in a truck like a. I think it's too small. It's hard for his people to get in there. His boats get in there because it's like 822 feet and I think it's also to avoid the whole Michael Jordan nonsense. Yes, but because they had a wait and there wasn't many waits, come in this week Saturday all day they were getting rumors that the catch 23 was going to be at the scales and so there was all kinds of build up for it. And the fun part is when they um because you watch a live stream when they have they try and pick music that goes along with whatever boat like. There was one that was a shooting star and they played the.
Speaker 3:I know you're a shooting star and then um one was called the sea hab and they played um. They tried to make me go to rehab by anyone so they try and do fun stuff like that.
Speaker 3:Well, the whole time his boat was coming in, because it took it a while, because it's been, then man, that guy pro fact not that I wouldn't think that he would pay a profession like that guy was probably. You know how many people are watching you parallel park an 800 foot boat, yes, and he, he nailed it right away, they backed it in, it got. It was like inches away from the other boats. It was pretty cool, but the whole time they were playing um.
Speaker 3:Michael jordan highlights over the loudspeaker yeah it was pretty and he was on the boat and he's in all the pictures and they won second place. So the winner was a local boat, a local angler, Ocean City 3.9 million Awesome, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I can't wait to make my daughter and her boyfriend feel bad because I tried to get them to take me to the white marauder open on. Saturday and they were oh well, we can't. And I think they don't realize how awesome it is and that it would be something they'd really enjoy.
Speaker 3:But no, I'm gonna tell them, michael Jordan was there yeah, and they missed it and he was giving out autographs in the crowd and and was walking around and stuff, so that that's. Yeah, that's pretty cool. Um, and because what days was it? It was thursday and friday were not good fishing days, so only a few boats went out. So, um, that the scales open at four and they go four to nine with the um, whatever right. So they were interviewing. They had people that are like behind the scenes people. So that was really fascinating because they had the poor guy.
Speaker 3:This has got to be the most stressful job for one week of the entire year that anyone could ever have. He is the guy that lines up the boats to weigh Wow, and so on busy days they're calling him all day with what they have and what time they'll think they'll be in and what bridge they can make, because it's a drawbridge and it opens at the 25 after and 55 of no, 55 after, 25 after and 55 after. So he has to coordinate what they have on their boat to when they can get in, to when they can line up to get into the scales. And all of this is because every minute that they have that boat on board it loses weight. So if they have to wait a long time, a pound, even an ounce, two ounces, three ounces is the difference between $3.9 million and $400,000. Yeah, like that is intense.
Speaker 2:That's a stressful job.
Speaker 3:Really is because you have to coordinate, and you have to coordinate the fact that the Catch-23 is 822 feet and how are you going to get that in there? Because no other boats can wait in line Right, because it can't get around anything else, so you have to. That guy has the most stressful job for one week a year. That like anybody could ever.
Speaker 3:I mean that's the difference between millions of dollars, if you even are wrong, and that fish loses a half a pound. That's a half a pound is the difference between winning and losing. It's crazy. That is crazy a pound is the difference between winning and losing. Yep, it's crazy. That is crazy, but it was pretty cool. It was cool to see and good for Ocean City and he was really cool and walked around the crowd and signed autographs and was in all the pictures, nice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was cool. It was cool, it's good. The only thing I could think of this week and it is kind of Gen X related thing I could think of this week and it is kind of Gen X related um, have you seen that there's a new Billy Joel documentary on HBO? Yes, I don't even know how long it is, because I've watched segments like hour-long times. I've sat down and I've not seen the same parts yet yeah, I've seen pieces of it.
Speaker 3:I haven't seen the whole thing it's's very, very interesting. It is.
Speaker 2:I've never been a huge Billy Joel fan, but listening to that I went in and put his old-time music on my playlist. I was like, oh, I forgot about all these songs.
Speaker 2:He's appealing to me because he's an old New York Jersey kind of guy and that's my dad's thing and Billy Joel in his early days wanted to mimic Frankie Valli, which is my dad's absolute favorite. I could sing one of his albums word for word. I don't remember which one, but my dad always had it on the record player. But it's really neat. When he was very young he was married.
Speaker 2:Yes, and they're still yeah, friends right right, um, and she had a daughter and so he helped to raise her and they had a great time and she became his manager the wife and then he got on drugs and drinking and what happens to a lot of people. No, she didn't come till later, but yeah, so yeah, and then Christy Brinkley's on there through part of it.
Speaker 3:I haven't seen the Christy Brinkley part. Yep, I've gotten up to Christy Brinkley.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's kind of neat that part, because they just partied, but it was not crazy partying. It didn't look like, of course, the documentary is going to say what it wants to say, but she was just, of course, this stunningly beautiful supermodel, and she comes into his little group of like hoodlums and just fit right in, you know, though, and just had the best time, and I think what happened with them was, she said, the fun just kind of stopped. Yeah.
Speaker 2:He became. I don't't know. I can't remember exactly what that part was, but yeah, it's it's. It's a really good documentary I've seen parts of it.
Speaker 3:I don't think I've seen the whole thing.
Speaker 2:I did what I can't remember what I was watching these stupid ass poker fucking tournaments on this stupid ass app I love it that when you tell me about it, you say it with hatred, basically because I'm like I just can't start. I know as soon as I start, exactly, don't do it, it's gonna be candy crush all over it is I broke level 14 000 on candy crush last night by the way I know, I know it's just that.
Speaker 3:Oh, because they send you the freaking tickets and then you can get in the tournaments and then, like, some of the tournaments are 25 cents and then if you get booted early, you were settling down to play poker, so you're gonna go.
Speaker 2:Yes, sounds like it's all I have even if it's cheap, it's such a time killer. It is because I've been doing.
Speaker 3:there's one every night that's called the free roll, so it's free and you can win tickets and the tickets go towards you can. There's some that are a dollar, all the way up to like $100, and you can win tickets. So it's like a dollar ticket that enters you into the dollar one, and I did use a dollar ticket and I did win $4.94 off of my dollar ticket that I did not pay for so.
Speaker 2:Do you find that when you enter, like the free ones or the quarter ones, that you don't do?
Speaker 3:well, the free one is hard because everybody goes all in, and I hate that, like it's not fun. It's because you're playing for free, so they're just going all in. And I hate that like it's not fun. It's because you're playing for free, so they're just going all in on everything I didn't think about that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I hate that like I get it you're not playing for and you can re-enter like four or five times but still like, don't you want to? At least because you do win the free roll you win. Um, last night's free roll was 54, up to number. 54 was in tickets and it was like a dollar ticket up to like the 30s and then it was two dollars and then the closer you got to the, the number one won two hundred dollars money. Everybody else won tickets, but I went out last night at a 500, no 600, 600 and some. I ended up going out 109. So not bad.
Speaker 2:Not bad. I asked that question because I learned years ago with DraftKings that a lot of times people that are really good will go in. And now I know this is different because it's lineups yeah, in. And now I know this is different because it's lineups and yeah, but. And they'll enter like a ton of the same lineup because they have all the data and they know all these people are going to be entering and then they can easily take first place right. So I didn't know if it was something like that too with the um, no, it's it also.
Speaker 3:It's good because, um, I noticed last night especially, it moves you tables suddenly. I couldn't figure out why. For a little while I couldn't figure out why I would be betting, and then suddenly it would hold me out and wouldn't let me bet. Everybody else at the table was playing and I was like what's happening? It's because it's moving you to tables with people with the same chip level as you. So it keeps moving you to tables.
Speaker 2:I don't like that.
Speaker 3:Well, I did, because then you can build your chips back up if you need to.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And then you're playing in league with people with the same amount. So when somebody who has 58,000 chips is going all in because they can, because it's going to force everybody else out, then you get put in with the people who have a similar chip count as you.
Speaker 2:And then you get pared down. I get that, but I feel like you need to know the table and work from there. I would want to try to build up on the table I was at, if you're a person.
Speaker 3:I agree with you if you're in person, but because it's all online, you're not getting a good read on anybody. Anyway, I like it because it does take you into a.
Speaker 2:That makes sense. I'm just never going to download it, don't do it.
Speaker 3:They have Let it Ride, don't do it.
Speaker 2:How can you tell me not to do it and then tell me they have Let it Ride, they have Let it.
Speaker 3:Ride and you can bet 10 cents the casinos around here, don't even have let it ride. I know, I know.
Speaker 2:Even Atlantic City the last time. I was there, which was like six years ago, I couldn't find any.
Speaker 3:When we went to Vegas I found it. The New York. New York had it, but it was only like a $10, $15 table and I can't do I don't understand, it's so fun $30 all at once. I can't.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh my God, that game is so fun.
Speaker 3:I know and you can bet 10 cents. Stop, I'm going to send you a link. Are you trying to get back at me for all the bad influence? I'm gonna send you a referral. No, yeah, because I think I get five dollars and you get five dollars, no.
Speaker 2:so if you're out there listening, bet rivers you or if you're out there listening, you're considered doing bet rivers email heather so she can send you the code, and then she can collect five dollars from all of you, and it's multi-state too. Yeah, poker, it's all the casino games.
Speaker 3:You're a junkie. Last night I was playing Blackjack. I'm not a fan of Blackjack.
Speaker 2:I don't like Blackjack.
Speaker 3:I know that's always been your thing, which is weird because I hate math.
Speaker 2:It's boring to me. Maybe I've just never gotten it Like I get it. I know the concept of it and I know the rules, but maybe I've just never like felt it One time I sat at a blackjack table in Vegas for six hours with 20 bucks. I sat at a Let it Ride table in Vegas for like 13 hours. Yeah.
Speaker 2:You remember that I love Letter Ride. We went down it was when I got married in Vegas, yeah and we went to Circus Circus and I sat down at a I want to say it was like a quarter or 50 cent Letter Ride table and literally sat there. All I ate that day was Bloody Marys with olives because they filled me up. And I sat next to I'll never forget I sat next to a prison guard from a Mexican prison and he would tell stories and it was like whoa I was at the blackjack table with two cops from LA and now that I think about it, it was like the early 2000s.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, thousands, oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:but when it's that cheap you can literally play that long, forever, yeah yeah all right, that's enough gambling I now I want to put okay, we're gonna shut this down now sorry, see you next week. Welcome to the poker podcast.
Speaker 2:All right, before we get started, I would like to remind you all to like share rate review, please, whether it's on the platform that you're listening to this podcast or on the socials. Either way, we are slowly but surely. Did you see? We're up over 900 followers.
Speaker 3:I did. We're getting there A hundred more and we can make that money. So if you know a hundred people or you would like to have a code, you could just reshare our posts and maybe it'll reach some people.
Speaker 2:Comment Anything. Yeah, you can find us wherever you listen to podcasts. Uh, follow us on all the socials, at like whatever pod, and we are on youtube as well. Uh, although we're not very active on there yet, we'll get there one day give us time.
Speaker 3:Yeah, mostly we have a fun thing coming up on sunday and I think we're gonna do some fun stuff. I was thinking maybe some live on the Tickety Talk. And on Facebook. So, you can see it's going to be fun because I don't have to wear my work clothes.
Speaker 2:She can wear her, nicest weirdo clothes.
Speaker 3:I can wear my weirdo clothes.
Speaker 2:And me on the other end is like I texted her actually last week and I was like I'm gonna stick out like a sore thumb and she was like welcome to my world. And I was like I do have an outfit planned. It is still not, but it's gonna be cute I mean, you have that witchy vibe thing going I do, and I have a really cute outfit that I wore in austin can't wait for my outfit. I can't wait for your outfit either. I'm'm so excited.
Speaker 2:I'm excited to just go do something with you too.
Speaker 3:I got my fishnets ready, oh lord. And my socks and my boots.
Speaker 2:I know.
Speaker 3:And I went thrift shopping and I found the perfect dress.
Speaker 2:Oh, lucky you so excited.
Speaker 3:So look out for that, because then you'll get to see my OOTD, maybe I'll get to see my OOT day D. Maybe I'll get a get ready with me. I won't because it's to be too early in the morning.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, we have to drive to Philly. It's a whole thing. Yeah, it's a whole thing. So, alright, or send us an email to likewhateverpod at gmailcom if you want that referral code for Bet Rivers from Heather.
Speaker 3:Or if you are Bet Rivers and you want to just give me tickets.
Speaker 2:We'll tag you on everything. Everything, we ever post, I will talk about you every week. And we'll stop talking about how awful it is. Maybe I'll join, maybe not. Anyway, all right, so let's fuck around and find out about Dr Seuss, yay, yay. So this was prompted by. I mean, a lot of the content is about specifically Dr Seuss. But today, the day we are recording, august 12th, is the 65th anniversary of the release of Green Eggs and Ham Sam I am. So Green Eggs and Ham gets their part in this.
Speaker 3:That's my theme. I will not eat them in a house. I will not eat them with a mouth. That really is the book about you. I know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I did learn really cool stuff about it, though, like one really big thing I never knew. Anyway, my sources this week were Britannicacom, everythingexplainedtodaycom, paradecom and MarianWebstercom. And no, this week I did not use any wiki. All right, so yeah, it turns out that there is a lot of information about Dr. Seuss online.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was much easier to find than other things that I have tried to look up before. All right, so Dr Seuss, born Theodore Seuss Geisel, was born March 2nd 1904 in Springfield, massachusetts, and he died September 24th 1991 in La Jolla, california. That might be La Jolla. I think it's La Jolla, california. That might be La Jolla. I think it's La Jolla, probably, because, yeah, but Los Angeles is Los Angeles and not Los Angeles. So let's not get crazy, I will be crazy. Okay, I tried to look up things that I would have to pronounce this time, but we'll see how that goes. That didn't work out real well for me. All right, so early in his career he graduated from Dartmouth College with a bachelor's in 1925. Geisel, which I did not look up, but that sounds like the right pronunciation for a German lesson Seems like it.
Speaker 2:It's spelled G-E-I-S-E-L, which it could be Giesel, which is like it. It's spelled G-E-I-S-E-L, which it could be Giesel, which is like diesel, although diesel has the I before E. I don't know. Anyway, we're going with Geisel. I love it. Okay. He did postgraduate studies at Lincoln College at Oxford and at the Sorbonne Sorbonne.
Speaker 3:That one, I know it's French, I'll swap.
Speaker 2:He subsequently began working for Life, vanity Fair and other publications as an illustrator and humorist. In addition, he found success in advertising, providing illustrations for a number of campaigns Geisel geisel Now, I can't remember which way I want to pronounce it. Anyway. Dr Seuss was especially noted for his work on ads for flit insect repellent, and some of the characters from that ad later appeared in his children's works.
Speaker 3:There's a locket in my pocket.
Speaker 2:After illustrating a series of humor books, geisel decided to write a children's book, which was reportedly rejected by nearly 30 publishers. That's some persistence, man. Yeah, I would have got like two rejections. I'm like, okay, I suck, I'm going to find something else to do with my life.
Speaker 3:One rejection two. Rejection Three. Rejection four.
Speaker 2:Red fish, blue fish, I don't know. Anyway, after a chance meeting with a friend who was an editor at Vanguard Press and to think that I saw it on Mulberry Street, was finally released in 1937. Now, when I first read that title and to think that I saw it on Mulberry Street, I was like I don't remember that. But then I saw the cover I was like, oh yeah, I remember that one. It's one of the ones that's no longer published, by the way. The work centers on a young boy who transforms his ordinary walk home from school into a fantastical story. Later, however, he describes only the facts of his walk to his father, who frowns on the boy's imaginative nature. Geisel used the pen name Dr Seuss, planning to publish novels under his surname. The doctor was a tongue-in-cheek reference to his uncompleted doctorate degree and for his father, who had hoped he would become a medical doctor.
Speaker 3:Oh, burn, burn. That sounds like something I would do.
Speaker 2:Who's a doctor now? Bitch, that's exactly what I would do to my dad, dr Jop.
Speaker 3:So when we become famous, I'm going to change my name to Dr Heather.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I always wanted to become a doctor in my field of study, but I'm good. It seems like a lot of work. Yeah, exactly, I'm done with school, I'm good.
Speaker 3:It seems like a lot of work.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, I'm done with school. However, his first book for adults, the Seven Lady Godivas, in 1939, fared poorly, and thereafter he focused on children's books, which he preferred. In many profiles and articles he is often quoted as having said adults are obsolete children and the hell with them. He's not wrong, he's really not. In 1986, he published a humor book on aging for readers of all ages your Only Old Ones. A book for obsolete children.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think I kind of want to look that one up Right. I was thinking that I feel like I could connect with that. After publishing several more children's works, geisel released Horton Hatches the Egg in 1940. With it he introduced the features that would come to define his books a unique brand of humor, playful use on words and outlandish characters. It centers on an elephant who is duped into sitting on the egg of a bird who goes on vacation. Despite various hardships, horton refuses to leave. I meant what I said and I said what I meant An elephant's faithful, 100%. In the end he is rewarded when the egg hatches and a creature with bird wings and an elephant head emerges.
Speaker 3:Now, who gets custody of that? I don't know it, says he was rewarded when it hatched, but did the mom come back, bird elephant.
Speaker 2:Did he get stuck with a kid that he didn't want? I don't know. Anyway, they didn't have the right to choose. I dug way too deep into dr seuss. I'm way overthinking everything. Uh so during world war ii, geisel's focus shifted to politics. In the early 1940s he was an editorial cartoonist at pm magazine in new york city. Although his political cartoons pointedly critiqued American isolationism and America first attitudes Hmm, way back then Some of them also contained xenophobic and sexist tropes and racist depictions of Asians, in particular Japanese people, arabs and Africans, of Asians, in particular Japanese people, arabs and Africans. Now I want to stop here and ask, because I should have Googled it, but is Arab still an appropriate term, I think so.
Speaker 2:I just feel like nobody says it anymore. Maybe Middle Eastern. I know, yeah, that. So I'm going to say it's going to come up a few more times and I hate to, but that's what was in the ratings. Not that that's an excuse, but if it is of any one, I'm sorry and I really should have looked it up.
Speaker 2:Anyway, geisel then served from 1943 to 1946 in the US Army, where he was assigned to the documentary division. Sounds like a pretty sweet gig. Right In 1945, he wrote your Job in Germany, which was directed by Frank Capra. It was later remade as the Academy Award winning Hitler Lives in 1945, though Geisel was not credited. After his service ended, he continued to make films with his first wife, helen Palmer Geisel, who wrote the Oscar winning documentary feature Design for Death in 1947. Heather enlightened me before this that there may be things that I don't know about him. There are some controversies. Of course, this stuff was written at a time where it was okay to be racist. Not that it's not still okay to be racist to a lot of people Depends on where you're living.
Speaker 2:I think yeah, so I did put in some of the controversial stuff here. So anyway, despite the messaging of tolerance and diversity in some of Geisel's children books, a number of them have been challenged in the 21st century for their racist stereotypes of Asian, arab and Black people. These include books published before his career as a political cartoonist and after his visit to Japan in 1953, which had inspired his Sneetches and Horton Hears a who. His first children's book and to think that I saw it on Mulberry Street features illustrations with anti-Asian stereotypes and depicts a circus ringmaster holding a whip over both an elephant and its African driver.
Speaker 2:Some modern readers have also argued that there are racial elements in the cat in the hat, viewing the cat's white gloves and appearance as a representation of blackface minstrelsy Um. This argument also claims that the depiction was inspired by Annie Williams, a black elevator operator at Geisel's publisher Houghton Mifflin, who wore white gloves. These problematic elements led a number of organizations, including the NEA and its initiative Read Across America, to distance themselves from highlighting Geisel's work. However, read Across America Day is still held on March 2nd, and schools around here at least call it Dr Seuss Day, because my kids had that day.
Speaker 3:I think again, it's one of those separating the person from the art, and I know that Walt Disney has also done where they have tried to go back. And here's my thing about it yes, racism is wrong.
Speaker 3:All the way around. These things should not still be at these things that are, you know, specifically with Disney, because I'm way more familiar with the Disney catalog than really all of Dr Seuss. But a lot of the Disney racist stuff should have been erased. It should have been. It's not an excuse that it was what was going on at the time. But I think more importantly is when a company recognizes that it is a problem, right, and then removes it. Correct, because they removed an entire ride at dis World because of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I'm going to get to what they've removed. I think it's all been done since Dr Seuss's death, so that doesn't clear him from anything. So yeah, but I also tend to wonder if we are still so sensitive to what was historically quote unquote okay, because there is. It's still so rampant that racism is out there. Maybe if we could look back in hindsight and be like, oh my God, that was crazy. People used to think and talk that way.
Speaker 3:And here's the thing like I go back and forth. I don't know if this is going to be politically correct, but I've never been politically correct.
Speaker 3:So my thing about it is okay yes, it's wrong and all that but when we erase it completely, like that, it's kind of doing the same thing that the other side of the coin wants to do about critical race theory. Like, if we ban all this stuff, isn't it the same thing as what they're trying to do, banning the history, the dark history of our country? Because that is what it was? Yes, that's what it was. In the 50s, black people were not allowed to eat at the same places as white people it's just blows my, it's not been that long it blows my mind.
Speaker 2:I mean Well, and it's not just, it was sexism too. I mean yes. I read something the other day and I've seen this before on like memes and stuff and they're like everybody says, you know, like divorce is so high now and it wasn't like that for my grandparents Just because women couldn't get bank accounts or credit cards or rent or own a home. They had to depend on the man they were with, so they had to stay yeah.
Speaker 3:So and so that's what I think, like a lot of times when. That's why I'm so torn about this specific thing, because by erasing it all, we're not acknowledging that it happened and that it was horrible, yes, and that it shouldn't have happened yes and it is acknowledged as wrong and changed correct you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:So, like disney is not going to do those things again, they still exist because that's what happened at the time and it was wrong and we acknowledge it and yeah, I think it would be better to like embrace the change, like when you see and I I'm assuming you're talking about like some statues being taken down or names being changed, which in some cases that doesn't know that I that I agree with.
Speaker 3:But why would you? First of all, yeah, you lost, he lost. Robert e lee lost. The guy's a loser, he lost that is true why would you want a statue of a loser? Exactly that side lost the confederate flag that you're waving. They lost, they're losers. They lost, true losers. Good point. Why would you want to fly the flag of losers?
Speaker 2:Whatever, maybe you're a loser yourself.
Speaker 3:They seceded from the country that you're supposed to be so fucking proud of, exactly.
Speaker 2:They left it.
Speaker 3:Now what You're?
Speaker 2:you're Okay, We've, we've got. We need to get back on track. Somebody's raging again. Yes, all right, so Read Across America Day, march 2nd. In addition, in 2021, dr Seuss Enterprises announced that it would no longer publish or license six of his books, including and to Think that? I Saw it on Mulberry Street citing its hurtful and wrong portrayals of people. Now, I do agree with that. Like you, don't want to keep printing books and having kids read them. If there's blackface in it, agreed, or there's making fun of Asian people.
Speaker 3:Agreed and I agree Right, but my issue is is that if we continue to shun it, put it in a box and say it never even happened?
Speaker 2:Yeah, because you can find tooth, comb, everything.
Speaker 3:You can find something in everything, depending on what you believe Like the whole trying to scrub, like I don't know what generation it is that's trying to go back and say that the john hughes movies should all be canceled. Probably they were very persuasive, molly ringwald kind of got. Yeah, there's a lot of date rape happening.
Speaker 2:We should show these people um blazing saddles and then talk to them and like yes, these movies are now problematic. Yes, but they're also our history.
Speaker 3:Exactly so if you shove everything into a box and say, well, this is all problematic, so we can't ever see it again. That's what happens now, where it's just repeating itself because we forgot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is a very fine line and the problem is that people are very passionate on either side of issues and those are the ones who are fighting for things and those are the ones who are never going to come together Like people who can just look at it with a I don't want to say an open mind. Try to see both sides. That's kind of fallen away too. I used to try to see both sides, but that's not really a thing anymore.
Speaker 3:I'll use the Confederacy as my point in this Okay, we should not celebrate the Confederacy because they were losers, but we should not celebrate the Confederacy, but we should acknowledge that it was part of this country, that it was a horrible part of this country, that it was a horrible part of this country and we should have to learn about it because it happened yes so when you're talking about specifically disney and the song of the south, we should not celebrate it because it's a terrible thing.
Speaker 3:But by erasing it from the whole universe, then you're not learning about why it's wrong and why it's a problem.
Speaker 2:That was a point I was trying to make and I just got tongue-tied. Was that we need to? I'm going to celebrate these things and look at how far we've come since that, look at what we learned from it and we know not to do it anymore.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I agree with you on that. So now we're going to get into and to think that I saw it all by your street and what was wrong with that book? Now, most of these are depictions of different races, nationalities, but I think there was maybe anyway. All right, and to think that I Saw it on Mulberry Street was published in 1937. Dr Seuss was inspired to write his story based on his experiences growing up in Springfield, massachusetts.
Speaker 2:Mulberry Street is a real street in his hometown and the young boy named Marco was inspired by Dr Seuss' childhood habit of daydreaming and letting his imagination run wild during his daily walks to and from school. The story revolves around Marco, a young boy with a vivid imagination. As he walks down Mulberry Street, he witnesses ordinary events and uses his creativity to transform them into extraordinary scenarios. Events and uses his creativity to transform them into extraordinary scenarios. For example, he sees a horse pulling a wagon and imagines it as a grand procession led by an elephant, complete with a brass band and confetti. Throughout the book, marco encounters various characters, both real and imagined, that add excitement and color to his otherwise mundane walk.
Speaker 2:Despite his imaginative appeal, and to think that I saw it on Mulberry Street was banned in March 2021 due to concerns about the portrayal of certain characters by Dr Seuss Enterprises. It's an organization founded in 1993 by Audrey Geis, the widow of Dr Seuss, with a primary purpose to protect, preserve and promote Dr Seuss's legacy. For instance, the character of an Asian man is depicted with exaggerated features, wearing a conical hat and carrying chopsticks. This portrayal perpetuates harmful stereotypes and reinforces cultural insensitivity. In the original publication, the character was referred to as a Chinaman, which I remember that term as a kid, which is now considered derogatory. Another issue involves a scene in which two men of African descent appear with exaggerated features and bare feet, reinforcing negative racial stereotypes.
Speaker 2:All right, the next one. So I'm going to go through the six books, not long for each of them, but just explain why and to help you remember books from then. If I Ran the Zoo is another imaginative story of Dr Seuss that follows Gerald McGrew, a young boy with a grand vision for transforming his local zoo into a spectacle featuring never before seen creatures. These fantastical animals include the likes of the Fizamawizamadil, a beast with a unique song, and the Tufted Marsuka, a bird that can play various musical instruments. As Gerald imagines traveling the world to collect these extraordinary creatures. He envisions encounters with various human characters from different ethnic backgrounds, such as Africans and Asians. Unfortunately, some of the characters are portrayed problematic, leading to the book's ban, so it sounds like he should have just stuck with yes, white folks, horton hearing a who, and cats and hats Another cat and a hat was racist.
Speaker 2:How about green eggs and ham? Green eggs and ham, I think made it through. Okay, same way. It through okay, same line. On march 2nd 2021, dr seuss enterprises decided to cease publication of if I ran the zoo, citing concerns over the portrayal of characters from diverse ethnic backgrounds. The images depict these characters with exaggerated features and clothing. One example is the portrayal of two african men wearing grass skirts and carrying an exotic animal. This depiction reinforces negative stereotypes about Africans and their clothing. Similarly, an Asian character is shown wearing a conical hat, with slanted eyes and a thin mustache. This image perpetuates outdated and harmful stereotypes about Asian people, which has no place in modern children's literature.
Speaker 3:I agree, I agree, I do. But again, I don't know why you can't have a foreword that says hey kids, this is not okay anymore. And here's why.
Speaker 2:And I also wonder about his intentions and I hope I say this the way it sounds in my head, but I wonder if he was trying to bring more diversity into his stories. He just didn't do it in the right way I think we also have to to remember this.
Speaker 3:See, it's such a fine line we walk with this, because I think we have to also remember that these people, like Dr Seuss, then, even though he was in World War II, he was in Germany, so it's not like he had a whole lot of contact. And he was a documentary In Germany whole lot of contact and he was a documentarist, documentary in germany, um in europe, with a lot of europeans, and so I think, up until geez, I don't know the 60s, the 70s, maybe even the 80s, later, even the americans didn't leave their country and didn't get exposed to cultures outside exactly of their own, so I think a lot of it is just stereotypes, because they didn't know any different right, I mean, I can remember watching bugs Bunny cartoons with black problematic.
Speaker 2:Yes, um, and the same that they describe here with Asian people.
Speaker 3:That that was all and if you, you know, if you grew up in the 30s in Massachusetts, I mean, if you think about what your it's not right, but what your idea of, because there's probably not a lot of black people in massachusetts in? Definitely not any japanese people, no, so what you're getting is what the minstrel shows, and media and media exactly always been the problem.
Speaker 3:I'm not saying it's okay, it's not acceptable. I'm not saying any of that, no, I'm just saying is. I'm not saying it's okay, it's not acceptable. I'm not saying any of that, no, I'm just saying is. I think.
Speaker 2:It's so funny because I think we're on the exact same page with this and we're both trying so delicately to explain it because we don't want to offend anyone and we don't mean anything offensive by it and we are not condoning it and we are not saying you know, you know, well, that's the way it was, because then you void out the me too movement. Well, that's always how it was. Men just grab girls by the pussy and then they moved on and that's the way it goes.
Speaker 3:And that's the other, that's see, that's what I'm trying to say. It's like it's so by because you shut all this shit down and say we cannot, we cannot have song of the south anymore, we cannot have these dr seuss books, we cannot have all this. Then you? Then you're whitewashing history.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:You're saying well, this stuff, well, because we didn't.
Speaker 2:It's a little embarrassing. It's the same family secret.
Speaker 3:It's the same thing as banning Huckleberry Finn Right, and that's how they spoke then. Right, it's not okay, and you should. When kids are learning about it, this is a learning opportunity for you to say this shit happened and here's why it doesn't happen anymore, and here's why it should never happen again. Yes, but without teaching people what happened. Then nobody's I know, I just feel like it should be taught.
Speaker 2:I am just so excited because I had no idea this was going to anger you so much, and you know I love it when you rage.
Speaker 3:I just hate things being banned because of.
Speaker 2:I do too.
Speaker 3:I understand the stereotype and I understand the issues with it, but I think, instead of banning all this shit and acting like it never existed, you should be using it as a learning opportunity to say this is the shit that used to happen, here's why it shouldn't happen anymore. And here's why Because look at this shit, it's awful.
Speaker 2:I agree a million percent and once again, like we have said tons of times on this show, tell kids that they can't have something and see how that goes. They're going to go seek this stuff out and then learn on their own with their little brains and no one there to guide them and explain to them what's happening there and why it's not okay anymore.
Speaker 3:Yes, the same thing goes to me. I know that they have banned and this is completely unrelated, but it just popped into my head because I just watched the thing about this Dying to hear it. Yes, like how they stopped showing the falling man in 9-11. They should be fucking showing that, because that's what fucking happened. Yes, people jumped out of the building because the hell that was inside was way worse than them jumping 90 some stories off the ground right, they made the choice.
Speaker 2:Do I want to spot her on the sidewalk or burn?
Speaker 3:alive. Do I want to burn alive, exactly and again by decent, by putting all this because we're too sensitive, we should?
Speaker 2:I don't think they show the planes crashing into the building.
Speaker 3:No, they don't anymore, and that happened Exactly.
Speaker 2:It happened and you should feel that.
Speaker 3:Exactly, and that is why I'm saying that you should put these people in blackface on and say that is wrong. And here is why. And you should feel why it's wrong and you should feel the embarrassment of it and you should feel it Yep, it's wrong and you should feel the embarrassment of it and you should feel it yep. And that is how you move forward by knowing what happened and what went wrong.
Speaker 2:I agree, another reason that gen x is amazing because we lived through a lot of this shit and it was all totally okay when we were kids and I get it, and we're making it not okay now.
Speaker 3:But I think the problem is we went so far the other direction of shutting it all out and saying, oh, it's all canceled.
Speaker 2:No one can agree on anything anymore and no one can have a discussion about anything anymore.
Speaker 3:It's also that you can't have a discussion about it. You need to be able to have a discussion because that's the way people learn.
Speaker 2:Like as much as there are things out there right now that I don't like, I would genuinely love to sit down with someone who feels the way they feel and can explain to me why they feel that way and what their point of view is and why they think whatever is good or whatever. But that's impossible. It is because the second you know they might start out good, but the second you ask a question somebody's gonna get defensive and then it going to turn into an argument. Yep.
Speaker 3:I went way far off the rails. That is quite all right, I love it Yay.
Speaker 2:It's passion. That's what I'm talking about. I'm very passionate about it.
Speaker 3:I just don't think things should be banned. I like it.
Speaker 2:All right. So help me out with this one McGilligot's, mcgilligot's Pool, mcgilligot's Pool All right, I was afraid it was French or something. I don't think so. It looks French, french and German or Irish anyway, with the MC.
Speaker 2:Imagine yourself diving into the world of McGilligot's Pool, a delightful and whimsical tale by the beloved Dr Seuss. This story takes you on an adventure with young Marco Again, what's with the Marco right? A daydreamer who discovers the extraordinary possibilities that could lie beneath the surface of an ordinary pool. As you flip through the pages, you'll be captivated by the vivid illustrations and rhymes that have made Dr Seuss a household name for generations. Envision yourself standing by McGilligat's pool with Marco, a seemingly insignificant body of water where he decides to cast his fishing line. You'll feel the excitement build as you join Marco in wondering what fantastic creatures could be lurking below With every tug of the line.
Speaker 2:Your imagination will soar as you explore the depths of the sea alongside Marco, encountering rare and fantastical marine life. You'll marvel at the incredible assortment of imaginative fish that Marco envisions, from those with intricate patterns and multiple tails to others that resemble underwater plants and animals. As you journey further into the magical underwater world, you'll be inspired to embrace the power of imagination and to believe in the potential of even the most extraordinary things. However, it's important to note that McGilligot's pool has faced some challenges due to its portrayal of certain characters. While the story is a celebration of creativity and wonder, the book's illustrations of Inuit, aka Eskimo individuals, perpetuate harmful stereotypes and cultural insensitivity. One such instance is the illustration of a fish described as an Eskimo fish. This fish is depicted wearing traditional clothing associated with indigenous people from the Arctic, such as the Inuit or Yupik communities.
Speaker 2:I'll admit for the longest time. I did not know Eskimo was a bad. I didn't know it was bad and I just assumed that's what they all look like, with the big furry hoods and, and they talked very quietly. That's how they were always depicted. Yeah, but I learned, you know, I know better. The term Eskimo is considered outdated and offensive by many indigenous people, as it has been historically used in a derogatory manner. Additionally, the illustration reduces the diverse cultures of these indigenous groups to a mere costume for fictional character. In response, dr Seuss Enterprises decided to halt the book publications on March 2nd 2021. All right, this was one I don't remember. On Beyond Zebra, I feel like I would remember that, because On beyond doesn't make any sense to me.
Speaker 2:Embark on an extraordinary linguistic adventure with On Beyond Zebra. This captivating story invites you to explore the world beyond the traditional alphabet, introducing you to the world of new letters and creatures that will spark your imagination and expand your understanding of language. Conrad Cornelius, a young protagonist not named Marco, believes that the conventional alphabet is only the beginning of a much larger linguistic landscape. As you turn each page, you'll discover an array of whimsical new letters, each accompanied by an imaginative creature that perfectly embodies its unique qualities. Dr Seuss's signature rhymes and illustrations will transport you into his fantastical world, where language is limited only by your imagination. As you journey through On Beyond Zebra, you'll encounter a delightful assortment of inventive characters, from the Ombus, which looks like a cow with a peculiar horn, to the Zatzit, a mysterious bird with a penchant for disappearing. I like how his names he was very good at naming things, because the names of birds sound like birds yes, like. I don't know how to explain it. Not only does each character introduce a new letter, but it also ignites a spark within you to think beyond the boundaries of the traditional alphabet. It encourages embracing the unlimited potential of language. In this tale, dr Seuss inspires readers of all ages to push the boundaries of their creativity and broaden their understanding of communication. The On Beyond Zebra tells us that language is a living, evolving entity that can be molded and expanded to suit our needs and imaginations.
Speaker 2:However, on Beyond Zebra is among the six books no longer in print by Dr Seuss Enterprises citing potentially insensitive imagery and content. While it does not contain overtly racist caricatures, like some of the other discontinued books, it has been criticized for perpetuating stereotypes and presenting potentially offensive content. Some illustrations in the book have raised concerns. For instance, one creature called the Nazim of Basim is depicted riding a camel-legged creature and wearing an exaggerated turban. This portrayal can be seen as stereotypes about people from the Middle East or South Asia. Dr Seuss books have often been portrayed as inspirational stories that encourage creativity and free thinking, and there is no denying that On Beyond Zebra is no exception. But in acknowledging outdated stereotypes, the publisher of this book has decided to halt its publications, emphasizing the need for inclusive and respectful literature. Next, one Scrambled Egg super with an exclamation point. I don't remember this one either. This sounds like your jam, though.
Speaker 3:I don't know if I think that's good or not.
Speaker 2:I do like scrambled eggs. Yeah Well, it's a story about somebody who travels the world looking for the best scrambled eggs. I don't know if you'd be willing to try other scrambled eggs though.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, never mind. Another charming tale takes you on a delightful culinary adventure as young Peter T Hooper engages in a quest to create the most extraordinary scrambled eggs ever made. Peter travels far and wide collecting exotic eggs from a variety of unusual birds to create his one-of-a-kind scrambled eggs dish. From the tree-dwelling ziffs and their blue eggs to the rare whippoorwill, each bird and its unique egg contribute to a flavorful masterpiece that Peter aspires to create. As you journey alongside Peter, you'll be inspired by his determination and resourcefulness in pursuing his culinary goal.
Speaker 2:The primary concern with Scrambled Egg Super lies in its portrayal of certain characters, which perpetuates cultural stereotypes. One such character is the ruffled-necked Salamagooks, a bird from the fictional Mount Sukukuk. This bird is depicted wearing a fur hat and boots which resemble traditional clothing worn by indigenous people from the Arctic region, such as Inuit and Yupik communities. The book also contains illustrations of a bird named Ali, hailing from the fictitious Isle of Nantasket. However, the illustration depicts Ali wearing a turban and holding a parasol, which raises some concerns. This portrayal oversimplifies the rich and diverse cultures of the Middle East and South Asia as mere caricatures. Another one I've never heard of the Cat's Quizzer. And these books were just banned, like four years ago, like I feel like I should know them.
Speaker 2:The book invites you to join the mischievous cat in the hat as he tests your knowledge on a wide range of subjects. Packed with amusing illustrations and clever questions, this book will challenge and entertain readers of all ages. And real quick, I just had a thought. And before I lose it, if the cat in the hat, so they want to say they're being self-righteous and upstanding and doing the right thing. But they didn't ban the cat in the hat because he's basically the face of Dr Seuss, right?
Speaker 2:But he was also problematic because it said in the beginning that I feel like it said in the beginning of the podcast I prepared. It did say that in the beginning. It did say it. I also said in the beginning that the cat in the hat may have been based on the lady that worked the elevator in his publisher's building, who was black and wore white gloves. Ah, mm-hmm, and if you think of the cat in the hat as a black stereotype, you can kind of see it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I don't really remember the cat. It's not my favorite.
Speaker 2:It's not my favorite either, but it's the one everybody knows.
Speaker 3:I don't care for the shenanigans? Oh, I'm not care for the shenanigans. Oh, I'm not a fan of shenanigans. Oh, I'm not a fan of that.
Speaker 2:Gotcha, I understand, I don't like pranks. I mean, green Eggs and Ham is your jam. Until he agrees at the end, yeah, yeah, then he ruins it. He does, all right. Packed with amusing illustrations and clever questions, this book will challenge and entertain readers of all ages. Picture yourself in a quiz with the cat in the hat. Answer a series of thought provoking questions that make you think and have fun while learning. Covering topics such as geography, history, animals and more, the Cat's Quizzer offers a fun and interactive way to expand your knowledge while enjoying the whimsical world of Dr Seuss. And interactive way to expand your knowledge while enjoying the whimsical world of Dr Seuss. As you journey through the book, you'll encounter quirky questions that spark curiosity and creativity, encouraging you to think outside the box and embrace the joy of learning. With its playful rhymes and imaginative illustrations, the Cat's Quizzer serves as a reminder of the power of curiosity and the importance of lifelong learning. One example of not goodness. That's an official title. Exactly.
Speaker 2:I just love it. I'm submitting it to Merriam-Webster. I love it.
Speaker 2:Is the depiction of a Japanese character referred to as a Japanese, of a Japanese character referred to as a Japanese. The character is shown wearing a traditional Japanese kimono and sandals, carrying an umbrella, and has exaggerated facial features. Now, that is problematic. I've never heard the word Japanese as a racial slur, but I guess it's all in context. The portrayal could be deemed offensive as it reduces the diverse and rich Japanese culture to a mere caricature, thus diminishing its significance and value. Another issue is the use of insensitive language when referring to different groups of people. For instance, one question in the quiz asks how old do you have to be to be a Japanese? Again, it's kind of a weird question. Yeah, that one's just going over my head. This phrasing reinforces stereotypes and fails to treat the subject with respect and sensitivity it deserves, which I get that, and I always say that I can have any opinion that I want on other races, cultures, whatever, but I'm not those people, so it's not up to me to decide whether it's offensive or not.
Speaker 3:And that's exactly how I feel and why I feel like I can't.
Speaker 2:Right. But I also wonder when they're making these decisions. Like did the Dr Seuss, whatever that organization is did they bring in Japanese people, inuit people, african people and ask them what their opinions were? Or did a bunch of white people sit around and decide this is offensive.
Speaker 3:That's my other issue with things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a big issue that they don't bring the people into the room, and that's across the board on basically everything.
Speaker 3:Well, and it's also a problem, because I know, with the renaming of certain sports teams there is a local high school. The name of this area is Indian River. Yes, and the name of the high school is Indian River High School, indian River School District. Their mascot is an Indian. There is a movement to have that changed. However, from what I understand, the local Nanticoke tribe is not the one pushing for the change. It's white people, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:There is also a big push because there's a lot of people that moved here from elsewhere. They want to change the name of a lot of the area here, such as Slaughter Beach.
Speaker 2:I knew that was going to be the first one you said, but that's what happened there.
Speaker 3:There's another one. No, it's not a prime.
Speaker 2:It's kill. Broadkill, broadkill, um, they want those names changed but are they bringing the people to the table?
Speaker 3:and that's just it like when they want to change the whole name of the area, but then you, when they have talked to the native tribe and is that part of their history like, are they proud that it's?
Speaker 3:from what I understand, the mascot that features on all of their stuff is a chief or as a higher up, and it is not as problematic as white people are making it, and I think that part of the problem is that they want to again. They want to whitewash everything Instead of taking into consideration that these things have been named these things forever because of some of the probably not the Indian River, but I wonder if this falls into two people trying to make themselves feel better about how they feel and that is what I'm talking about.
Speaker 2:Like they are actually racist and they feel better doing Just like. A lot of white men have maybe been attracted to a man before or been turned on on by something and now they hate all gays. Back to Dr Sue. She's done raging again for a minute. Oh, the places will go.
Speaker 2:Oh, the places will go All right. So now we're going to get to Green Eggs and Ham, the inspiration for this week's podcast. Because today, the day we're recording, tuesday, august 12th, is the 65th anniversary of Green Eggs and Ham. Green Eggs and Ham is a child's book by Dr Seuss. It was published by the Beginner Books in print of Random House on August 12th 1960. The book follows Sam IM as he follows an unnamed man, repeatedly asking him if he would like to try some green eggs and ham before the man eventually tries it and likes it.
Speaker 2:Seuss began writing Green Eggs and Ham after his editor, bennett Cerf, bet him $50 that he could not write an engaging children's book with a vocabulary of 50 words. That's the thing I didn't realize. I mean, I know it's very repetitive, but he only uses 50 words in that book. Finding the challenge difficult, seuss used notes, charts and checklists to keep track of his progress. The book covers themes of conflict between individuals, though Seuss has said that it lacks any deeper meaning. The Green Eggs and Ham was widely praised by critics for its writing and illustration, and the challenge of writing a book in 50 words is regarded as a success. The book has been the subject of multiple adaptations, including a television series of the same name in 2019. So the plot is Sam IM offers an unnamed man a plate of green eggs and ham, but the man tells him that he hates the food. Heather just keeps shaking her head. No, for those of you that don't remember or haven't listened, she is a very picky eater.
Speaker 3:We recently found out that there is an actual eating disorder for what I have. Okay, and I feel I've been vindicated at this point.
Speaker 2:She doesn't eat anything green anyway, but she does eat eggs I'll eat green purple. I won't eat anything purple what green stuff do you eat? I guess you'll eat a salad once in a while.
Speaker 3:I did I actually have been on a salad kick here recently. I've had a lot of salads in the last week you don't eat like avocados. I do actually eat avocados. I've been on an avocado kick as well, I'm so proud of you. I eat sourdough bread with avocado Avocado too.
Speaker 2:I don't like sourdough bread. All right.
Speaker 3:Been on a guacamole kick. I've been on a hummus kick.
Speaker 2:Anyway.
Speaker 3:I won't eat hummus because it's called hummus and it's made out of chickpeas, and I don't want to eat anything called chickpea or a garbanzo bean Either way you want to talk about it. And I won't eat beets because they smell like dirt.
Speaker 2:Beets are nasty. Nobody likes beets.
Speaker 3:They just say they don't like beets. It's funny that you should say that, because my co-worker just told me how he drinks beet juice every day and then he said, no, it's flavored. And I'm like that makes it even worse.
Speaker 2:It's like I always said about Lysol, because our ex-family, if you'll remember, in the bathroom they had Lysol and I'm like I hate the smell of Lysol anyway and then when you spray it in the bathroom after you've used the restroom now it just smells like shit and Lysol Like it smells so much worse. But anyway, I digress. Sam continues to follow the man, asking him to eat the food in some locations house box, car, tree train, dark rain boat locations house box, car, tree train, dark rain boat and with some animals mouse, fox, goat for dining partners. Finally, when the man agrees to try the dish sam I am has offered, he realizes that he does like green eggs and ham, he announces that he will eat them anywhere and he thanks sam I am so I would probably try green eggs, but I don't like ham.
Speaker 3:I have had green eggs. Ew, I mean, it's just food coloring. I know we used to make green eggs and ham at the restaurant for St Patrick's Day.
Speaker 2:Adorable Green Eggs and Ham was written by Theodore Seuss Geisel under his pen name, dr Seuss. He wrote the book after his editor at Random House, bennett Scherf, bet him $50 that he could not write an engaging children's book using a vocabulary of only 50 distinct words. The bet was a response to Seuss's previous success, the Cat in the Hat, which was written using 236 distinct words. Cat in the Hat, which was written using 236 distinct words. Seuss took extensive notes to work out how to best use 50 words, creating different charts and checklists. By the time he finished arranging the words, he had memorized many of the statistics of how he used them. Seuss found the restrictions especially challenging and he rewrote many pages before he was satisfied with the rhymes. The drafts were typed on rice paper which Zeus attached to his illustrations. His wife, helen Palmer, sometimes placed his discarded drafts back on his desk in the hope that he would approve of them after looking at them a second time, though he rarely did.
Speaker 2:Early drafts had the unnamed man speak more aggressively to Sam-I-Am when the two characters were in a car atop a tree. He was originally written as saying Sam-I-Am, you let me be, not in a car, you, let me be. I hear you. That's the Heather version of the unnamed man. Suze changed this to. I would not, could not in a tree, not in a car. You let me be. I would say I would not with a duck.
Speaker 3:I do not give a fuck.
Speaker 2:I wonder how many rhymes he wrote with cuss words, Like he had to have done that unless he had no sense of humor.
Speaker 3:I mean duck and fuck is right there. You have to.
Speaker 2:I would, making the outburst less direct and moving the exclamation point away from the command. In another example he is written as saying I do not like you, sam, I am. The drafts also describe the subject as green ham and eggs, instead of the final wording green eggs and ham. Dr Seuss finished writing Green Eggs and Ham in the early spring of 1960. A reading was scheduled for April 19th in the office of Luis Bonino at Random House. These readings were often attended by the entire staff, but Cerf was out of the office that day, so a dinner party was arranged for the reading. The reading ended with applause, but Seuss remained self-critical and scrutinized pages that he felt did not get the reactions he had hoped. That's what happens when you try to write with only 50 words.
Speaker 2:Phyllis Cerf had intended to announce Green Eggs and Ham with two other children's books Are you my Mother and Put Me in the Zoo? And a publicist was sent to request that reviewers postpone reviews after advance sheets had been distributed early. Distributed early All these words keep tripping me up. Green Eggs and Ham was published on August 12, 1960. At the time, approximately 3 million Dr Seuss books had already been sold. Dr Seuss believed that children's books had more power to do good or evil for society than any other medium, and Green Eggs and Ham was the first of Seuss's beginner books to carry a lesson for children. Despite this, dr Seuss has said that there is no deeper meaning in the book, insisting that the only meaning was that Bennett Cerf, my publisher, bet me 50 bucks. I couldn't write a book using only 50 words.
Speaker 2:Green Eggs and Ham reverses the traditional structure of an adult trying to convince a child to try new foods. It is one of many Dr Seuss books about a defiance of norms, in this case the persistence of Sam-I-Am after his offer of green eggs and ham is rejected. It explores the underlying social connections between individuals set in opposition to each other, but it does so in a way that appeals to the interests of children. Both characters refuse to move from their decision throughout the book until the adult finally gives in at the end. Now, what cracks me up about that paragraph is the paragraph before.
Speaker 3:Seuss said himself it had no meaning.
Speaker 2:It had no meaning. I was simply trying to win the 50 bucks, like that's it, but of course everybody has to.
Speaker 3:Oh, speaking of which, oh, my God did you see Taylor Swift announced her new album.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, I can't believe.
Speaker 3:I didn't talk about that.
Speaker 2:Oh I know it's. Oh my God, did you see? Taylor Swift announced her new album? Oh my God.
Speaker 3:I can't believe I didn't talk about that.
Speaker 2:Oh, I know it's not been released yet and I have not listened to their podcast yet, but I will be listening to that one. Green Eggs and Ham. Only uses 50 words and here they are. Oh, boy, am and anywhere are be, boat, box, car, could dark do eat eggs, fox, goat, good green ham here house. I, if in let like, may me mouse not on or rain sam say, see so, thank that the them there. They train tree try will with wood would and you, and yes, I did practice that earlier.
Speaker 2:That's a lot of pronouns it seems like 50 words sounds like a lot, but that's not a lot of words. It's really not. Of these words anywhere is the only one to have more than one syllable. The different words are combined for a total length of 681 words, and the most common words are not and I, which are used 82 and 81 times respectively.
Speaker 3:Coincidentally, those are my most common words also. Not, I Not. I. I will not.
Speaker 2:In a boat on a goat fuck fuck a duck, I don't give a fuck, fuck the duck, fuck, duck.
Speaker 2:Um. The narrative of green eggs and ham is told in a question and answer structure. Consistent use of the name sam I am, instead of simply sam, allowed Seuss to maintain meter while rhyming it with the eponymous green eggs and ham, sam I am. The title of Green Eggs and Ham is a play on the common phrase ham and eggs, inverting it to draw the reader's attention. It has been reported that the book was banned in China from 1965 to 1991 because it supposedly contained themes of early Marxism. This 50 word thing where he just wanted to win 50 bucks.
Speaker 2:I mean seriously people get it together. That is to say Soviet style socialism, which was at odds with Chinese socialism. With Chinese socialism, allegedly, the breakfast was interpreted as a metaphor for Soviet socialism, with many initially rejecting it but eventually coming to enjoy it after quote unquote trying it. So did the Soviets eat green eggs and ham? Like I'm not seeing the connection here.
Speaker 3:I don't know.
Speaker 2:Green eggs and ham was widely praised upon its release and reviewers overwhelmingly celebrated that the book was written using only 50 distinct words. Emily maxwell of the new yorker commented on seuss's use of the vocabulary, saying that reading him, one is hardly aware that there are more than 50 words. It was praised for its rhythm and illustrations, as well as its use of rhymes. The humorous nature of the book also received positivity and no racist caricatures. Apparently that's what Score.
Speaker 2:In 1967, green Eggs and Ham ranked as the best-selling children's book. At the end of 2000, it had sold 8,143,088 copies, making it the most popular book by Dr Seuss and the all-time fourth best-selling hardcover children's book in the United States. At Dr Seuss's alma mater, dartmouth College, it became an inside joke that the book's title was a reference to the breakfast food served in the off on campus cafeteria when Dr Seuss received an honorary doctorate from Princeton University in 19. University you know what I mean. In 1985, the graduating class rose and recited Green Eggs and Ham in its entirety for him, which I think sounds amazing. I would have loved to have seen that.
Speaker 2:Seems, long though it would have been pretty cool though, Sam.
Speaker 2:I am. Dr Seuss reportedly spent the rest of his life enduring gifts of Green eggs and ham, which he described as deplorable stuff. Dude, this was his one. You know how every band has. Oh my god, I have to sing this song in every concert now, like this was his that song, um. Later in life he said that green eggs and ham was the only book of his that still made him laugh, probably because of the absurdity that followed it. The Green Eggs and Ham Cafe opened in the Seuss Landing Island at the Universal Islands of Adventure theme park in 1999. It closed in 2015 before reopening in 2019. The cafe serves the titular Green Eggs and Ham, as well as other foods featured in dr seuss books. No, thank you, um. Us district court judge james murad reference green eggs and ham in his september 21st 2007 court ruling after receiving an egg in the mail from prisoner charles j wolf, who was protesting against the prison diet. That would be you.
Speaker 3:I think probably I would actually like a prison diet, probably Bread. I love cafeteria food.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm a fan of cafeteria food too. Muirhead ordered the egg destroyed and rendered his judgment in the style of Seuss. Senator Ted Cruz read the book on the floor of the United States Senate during his filibuster over the funding of the Affordable Care Act. Do you want to make the same joke? I thought of it was probably the only book that he could read. Could read, yeah, so that's why he read it. 684 words does not fill a lot of time in a filibuster, but it's not very long. Yeah, and it's very wrong. Look at you sucing it up over there.
Speaker 2:Rhyme, I got rhyme bro musician will I am has stated that his moniker is inspired by the story. Many parodies of green eggs and ham have been created, including a rap song by moxie fruvos there's two dots over the? U, so I don't know if I said that right and a sketch on Saturday Night Live featured the minister, jesse Jackson, reading the book during a sermon.
Speaker 2:I do remember that I know me too. Green Eggs and Ham has been adapted into stage and television versions. In 1973, the year I was born, it was adapted as an animated television special alongside the Sneetches and the Zacks. Originally titled Dr Seuss on the Loose, the special was later renamed Green Eggs and Ham and Other Stories. The book was adapted as a video game for the Game Boy Advance Dr Seuss, green Eggs and Ham, published by New Kid Company and released on November 17, 2003.
Speaker 2:A television adaptation was released by Netflix in 2019, also titled Green Eggs and Ham. It stars Adam Devine as Sam-I-Am, a wildlife protector, and Michael Douglas as the unnamed man, a failed inventor who is given the name Guy MI. For the series. The show introduces new character settings and plots independently from the book. A graphic novel, green Eggs and Ham Takes a Hike, released on January 7, 2025, is written and illustrated by James Kachulka. In the graphic novel, the unnamed man's name is Walter. And now I hope you learned a lot about Dr Seuss. I have some fun facts Not that that whole thing wasn't fun facts, fun facts, fun facts. Dr Seuss was voted least likely to succeed by his classmates at Dartmouth College. Oops, mm-hmm seed by his classmates at Dartmouth College Oops.
Speaker 2:Dr Seuss is credited with inventing the word nerd, which first appeared in If I Ran a Zoo in 1950. In Dr Seuss's 1950 composition of Whimsy If I Ran the Zoo, we have what seems to be the first occurrence of nerd in print. The zoo we have what seems to be the first occurrence of nerd in print. And then, just to show them, I'll sail to Katru and bring back an itkuch, a preep and a pru, a nurkle, a nerd and a seer seeker too. In October of the following year, newsweek carried an article about the latest slang that includes the word nerd In Detroit. It notes someone who once would have been called a drip or a square. Remember when people were called squares? Yep, that's hilarious it now?
Speaker 3:regret is now regrettably, a nerd or, in less severe cases, a scurf.
Speaker 2:I don't know what my mother is cooking down there, but it smells delicious. Guys like you. Guys might be able to hear my stomach growling throughout this podcast because I'm so sorry what she's making down there, but it seriously smells like fried chicken right now. It's not until the 1960s, however, that nerd uh takes off and starts appearing more frequently in running text. Over the decade and into the 70s, print usage of nerd became truly abundant. It could be said then that nerd established colloquial usage around that time.
Speaker 3:I am a nerd, I am self-identifying as a nerd.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think nerds are proud of themselves now as well. They should be. They're far better than the morons. Dr Seuss liked that Seuss rhymed with Mother Goose, so he adopted that pronunciation rather than Saus, which is the correct German pronunciation, and I'm going to call him Dr Saus for the rest of my life. And I am going to call him Dr Souse for the rest of my life. Yeah, that Seuss is much better. Finally, and this was my favorite fun fact, the title character of Yertle the Turtle was based on Adolf Hitler. The story follows Yertle, the ambitious and power-hungry king who harbors grand aspirations of dominance over his pond. Dr Seuss, known for his clever and imaginative storytelling, revealed that Yertle the turtle is meant to serve as a symbolic representation of Adolf Hitler, giles Yertle's oppressive reign over his pond and his insatiable pursuit of power to the authoritarian regime of Adolf Hitler in Nazi Germany.
Speaker 2:So yeah, Next time you read Yertle the Turtle, you're going to see it very differently. Sounds like somebody else, we know, not named Adolf Hitler, but anyway.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we've been controversial enough in this episode that we should probably stay away from it, we might actually get arrested.
Speaker 2:The orange menace yeah, we engaged in that conversation prior to recording and that really fueled a lot of the rage. That was in this podcast and probably will be for the next three and a half years Hopefully not more, but yeah, that's it.
Speaker 3:Obviously my favorite Dr Seuss is the Grinch, although I don't agree with him being okay with Christmas at the end. I think it goes off a little bit there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like the unnamed man in Green Eggs and Ham. Yeah, stick to your ground.
Speaker 3:But that was very good. Thank you, I did want to interject my 57 cents. Do it I did want to give some of my favorite Dr Seuss quotes, because I have a few that I have pretty much modeled my whole self Today. You are you. That is truer than true. There is no one alive who is you-er than you. I love that. Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, nothing is going to get better, it's not.
Speaker 3:Specifically the it's not part that's from the Lorax, because they cut down all his trees. And my all-time favorite Dr Seuss quote and the one that I live by nearly every day why fit in when you were born to stand out?
Speaker 2:I love that.
Speaker 3:That's that about that, exactly so. Like share rate review. Thank you for listening. We have given you back to back hour and a half. Sorry If you had three hours to kill. Thanks, thank you for listening. Like share rate review. Find us where you listen to all podcasts. Follow us on all the socials. At like whatever pod, send us an email about your favorite Dr Seuss quote, or if you want that code, or if you are bet rivers, or if you are Bet Rivers, or you want to give us money, or any of the above. At like whatever pod. At gmailcom. Or don't like whatever, whatever.
Speaker 2:Bye.
