She Doesn't Even Go Here

What if one date could hold a lifetime of cultural whiplash? We start with birthday football bliss, a raw story about losing a friend’s elderly dog, and that awkward post-count tension at work—then spiral into the pop culture rabbit hole October 3rd always seems to crack open. From kids’ TV confessions (Reading Rainbow without LeVar, Teletubbies dread, SpongeBob joy) to a Springsteen biopic sighting and a halftime-show debate, we map the lines between “not for me” and “still respect it.” There’s Taylor Swift brunch-planning, Reputation-era outfits, and the case for using pop songs as therapy shorthand.

Then we time-jump. Lincoln’s Thanksgiving proclamation gets a fresh read. Mr. Ed trivia trots out a second horse. We dive into McCartney and Jackson’s Say Say Say—charts, remixes, and the fateful dinner talk that nudged Michael toward publishing power. The temperature spikes with Madonna’s Erotica era and Sinead O’Connor’s SNL protest: tearing the Pope’s photo, saying “fight the real enemy,” and paying the price years before the Church faced its abuses. We revisit the OJ verdict as a mall-TV memory and weigh it against what we now know about CTE—without excusing harm or ignoring victims.

The heart of the episode is Dee Snider vs the PMRC: Senate theater, parental advisory labels, and the long shadow of moral panics on music and speech. We argue for a harder kind of free speech—defending expression you dislike while standing up for those harmed by hate and exclusion. Along the way, we cheer the Berlin Wall’s fall, wink at the Mean Girls “It’s October 3rd,” and end on real life: looming shutdowns, essential work, and making sure people still get mail, meds, and meals.

If you’re Gen X or Gen X at heart, this is a warm, messy mixtape of protest, pop, and memory. Hit follow, share with a friend who remembers the roller rink, and leave a review telling us which October 3rd moment still lives rent-free in your head.

Chapters

• 0:00 Birthdays, Football, And Office Tension
• 3:10 Losing A Pet And Small-Dog Talk
• 4:55 Kids TV, Reading Rainbow, And SpongeBob
• 7:18 Springsteen Biopic, Halftime Takes, And Music Drift
• 10:20 Taylor Swift Hype And Brunch Plans
• 13:40 DIY YouTube Plans And Raw Recording
• 16:10 Creepy TV Recs And Cult Thrillers
• 16:45 Calls To Action And Free Stickers
• 17:50 October 3rd Deep Dive: Thanksgiving Proclamation
• 19:20 Mr. Ed Trivia And TV Nostalgia
• 21:20 Say Say Say: McCartney, Jackson, And Charts
• 26:45 Madonna’s Erotica, Ticket Prices, And Concert Stories
• 30:40 Sinead O’Connor’s SNL Protest And Backlash
• 38:10 OJ Acquittal, CTE, And Memory Of The Verdict
• 44:10 German Reunification And Mean Girls Moment
• 47:20 Dee Snider vs PMRC: Free Speech Stakes
• 55:00 Advocacy, Shutdown Fears, And Closing Shoutouts

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:04

Two best friends talking fast. We're missing to our case, we're having a blast. Seeing these dreams, clicking on screens, it was all bad. Never never never laughing Jerry on scoring forever. We'll take you back like whatever.

SPEAKER_02: 0:31

Welcome to Like Whatever, a podcast for, by, and about Gen X. I'm Nicole, and this might be FFF Heather.

SPEAKER_01: 0:39

Hello.

SPEAKER_02: 0:40

So we had a special occasion this week.

SPEAKER_01: 0:43

It wasn't very special.

SPEAKER_02: 0:45

Heather of Like Whatever had a birthday on Sunday. I did.

SPEAKER_01: 0:50

Yep. And I had a lovely day because I was home by myself. And I got to watch football from 9 a.m. until I went to bed. So that is a winning day. And the Eagles won.

SPEAKER_02: 1:01

And the Eagles won. Yes. I spent the day the same way, just not with you. Just started football at 9 30 in the morning and watched it all the way through. It was very nice.

SPEAKER_01: 1:11

Um, our mail count is over. Thank God. Yep. I did better than most. So yeah, it's yeah, I'm glad it's over for you. All of me though. So six months from now we'll be doing it again. Yeah. It's uh it's weird. Um, it's weird being in the minority in the office now because it's like feels different in there, and so it's not like anybody's mad at you in particular, but I don't know, there's just such a tension because everybody's pissed off.

SPEAKER_02: 1:45

So they're not pissed at you.

SPEAKER_01: 1:47

No, they're just pissed, and so it's like a you the like you get a lot of side out, like, and every time somebody's like, Well, how'd you do? And I'm just like, terrible. I just like the homeer going back into the yeah. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Yeah. But so that was that was my birthday present on Saturday, was my route went up. So nice. I'm very happy about that because I am not going to be able to work anymore overtime ever again. Is that a new rule? No, well, no, kind of. Because I'll the way my route is set up, I will have two days off, Sundays and Wednesdays. And a lot of the uh routes in the office dropped so that they only get one day off and then two days every other week. And so the subs will not have a whole lot of work. So anybody who has two days off is gonna have to take it for the subs.

SPEAKER_02: 2:38

Yeah. I mean, it sucks for the money, but at least it forces you to take your two days off. Yeah. Because that's a tough choice to make.

SPEAKER_01: 2:45

It's not money all the way. I'd rather have the money. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 2:48

I was actually thinking on the way down here. Should I get a small little part-time job?

SPEAKER_01: 2:52

Nah.

SPEAKER_02: 2:53

I mean, it didn't take me long then.

SPEAKER_01: 2:57

It it's for me, because like today I was done at one o'clock, 1.30. 1.45. So I was I got the whole rent. You know, like that's that's a part-time job for me. I went in at 7 30, worked till 1.30. True. I mean, yesterday sucked, but yeah, but that was Monday. Today's Tuesday.

SPEAKER_02: 3:14

Yeah, yesterday did suck. All the way just around. Yesterday was a shit day. I'm glad it's over. Yeah. But yeah, sad day. My friend's dog passed away. Yes. And I was the one that found it. Ugh.

SPEAKER_03: 3:30

Ugh.

SPEAKER_02: 3:31

And I was the one who had to call her and tell her. Yeah. So yeah. Yeah. Not the best. But he was old. He lived an amazing life. He was a happy, I don't even like little dogs, and he was the happiest little dog. Like he didn't even get on my nerves, which is rare for little dogs.

SPEAKER_01: 3:50

Yeah, you know, you gotta really I was a big I was always a big dog fan until I had my girl, my my dog, my soul dog, as they call it, um, the end of her life was extremely expensive. Yeah, extremely expensive. And big dogs are extremely expensive. Yes. So I downsized. And yeah, they're they live longer, which is good. Um, but there's there's gives and takes on that one.

SPEAKER_02: 4:20

So yeah. I mean, he was um completely blind, completely deaf. Just wandered around bonking into walls. Yeah. We actually laughed at it. It was kind of cute. I mean, he didn't hurt himself, he'd just be like, Oh, hey, that's a wall. Move on to the next thing. We'd have to steer him around to get him to the door and back up the steps and all that stuff. But yeah, but my friend's really sad. Um how old was he? I think like 17. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 4:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 4:52

So so that was yesterday. Reading Rainbow is back.

SPEAKER_01: 4:57

Reading Rainbow is back. New host. I don't remember his name right off the top of my head, but it is not LeVar Burton. Did you watch Reading Rainbow? I did. I wasn't allowed as an adult. I watched it. I mean, I I guess I watched it some as a kid. No, I don't remember when it came on. Yeah. They said earlier today, and I know LeVar Burton did it until like 2000 something, so yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 5:21

But Reading Rainbow and Mr. Rogers were off off.

SPEAKER_01: 5:25

How is Mr. Rogers off? Like I get LeVar Burton Wayne.

SPEAKER_02: 5:31

So no, it didn't even have to do with race. If it was a show my mom didn't like, we didn't watch it. So don't fucking read a book. Yeah. Yeah. Luckily she likes Sesame Street, so I did get to do that one. But yeah. I missed out on a lot of the kids shows when I was little.

SPEAKER_01: 5:49

Yeah. That's a shame. I I I do remember I don't remember watching it as an ad as a kid, but I remember watching it as an adult because I love LeVar Burton. And I'm a Star Treky fan.

SPEAKER_02: 6:03

So I mean it is tough to sit through shows your kid your kids like and you don't, but I let my son watch Barney and Teletubbies. Yeah. And Teletubbies was his favorite. Yes, it freaking was favorite.

SPEAKER_01: 6:18

I hated that.

SPEAKER_02: 6:19

He had the yellow Teletubby that he took everywhere with him, stayed in bed with him. It talked when you pushed it, which was super fucking creepy.

SPEAKER_01: 6:26

It was creepy.

SPEAKER_02: 6:26

Yeah, that show was that show was creepy.

SPEAKER_01: 6:28

Weird as hell. Yes. Yes. I babysat many a time and had to watch it. And I remember I was like, this is why I don't have kids. Yeah. I don't have to watch teletubbies. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 6:40

The other night I sent my daughter a video of my cats. And she all she writes back is, Are you really watching SpongeBob? Because she could hear it in the background. I was like, dude, I fucking love Spongebob, okay? It's funny as hell.

unknown: 6:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 6:55

I love it. So yes, I do. I remember years ago, um our ex-brother-in-law came over once and was like, you know, you don't have to watch SpongeBob when the kids aren't home, right? It's like, man, I love it. I do though.

SPEAKER_01: 7:13

It's a good show. It is. It's highly entertaining. There's something else too. Oh, did you see on Sunday Night Football they advertise that Bruce Springsteen movie? Hmm. I don't think so. I forget what it's called. Is your mom all over? As soon as I saw it, I was as soon as they I didn't, I didn't even need to see. As soon as they started playing something, I was like, oh no. And it's the kid from the bear. Oh.

unknown: 7:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 7:40

And I was like, okay. No. Okay. And I I was like, I don't. She didn't text me, so she mustn't maybe it wasn't on. I watched it on Peacock, so maybe it was a Peacock advertisement.

SPEAKER_03: 7:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 7:51

Because is that what the bear is on, Peacock? It's on Netflix. Anyway.

unknown: 7:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 7:59

I forget what it's on.

SPEAKER_02: 8:00

I'm gonna have to tell my friend because she is all like every time I get in her Jeep, she's got serious Bruce Springsteen on the series, the Bruce Springsteen channel. And I'm always one time I was like, so you're on a big Bruce Springsteen kick fan, hey, hey. And she was just like, Oh, I love it. And she knows every word to every song, and her other friend calls it um, I can't remember what she called it, but there's a nickname. So apparently this has been a lifelong addiction.

SPEAKER_01: 8:33

I think it's called Deliver Me From Nowhere. Okay. Uh it's a based on a book. Yeah, I'm reading. So is it a biography? Biography? Yes. Okay. Uh American biographical musical drama film written and directed by Scott Cooper based on the 2023 book Deliver Me From Nowhere, starring Jeremy Allen White as Bruce Springsteen. Um it chronicles the conception of Springsteen's 1982 album, Nebraska. Oh, well, maybe she won't want to see it because I do know that she did not care for Nebraska.

SPEAKER_02: 9:10

She'll still want to see it. Probably.

SPEAKER_01: 9:12

My poor dad.

SPEAKER_02: 9:13

What do you think of the halftime for Super Bowl?

SPEAKER_01: 9:16

I'm not a big bunny or bad bunny fan.

SPEAKER_02: 9:18

Um it it he's you just don't know him, right?

SPEAKER_01: 9:22

I I know him. I'm just I'm not, I'm just not, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 9:24

Yeah, I feel the same way. Like I I'm good with the pick. Oh, yeah. Um I think he's gonna put on a great show. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 9:31

I think he is He's like the number one artist in the world right now. So it makes complete and total sense that they do it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 9:37

And he's fine as hell. Like he has a nice looking man, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 9:40

Yes. And he he's an American citizen. I don't know if well apparently that's a point of contention right now. Yes, but people don't know their anything from Puerto Rico, which is a US territory.

SPEAKER_02: 9:57

No, I think you know, it's it's nothing that particularly excites me, but I think he will put on a very good halftime show.

SPEAKER_01: 10:02

Yeah, I'm not I I know his I I rem he was in um Happy Gilmore too, and I enjoyed him in that. I enjoyed him on Saturday Night Live, but as far as his music, it's not my cup of tea. Well, most of it's in Spanish, so well yeah, and I don't know. And you don't know Spanish. I mean, I know that's fine. I don't I don't have an issue with I don't have an issue at all with it. So sometimes the music isn't for me.

SPEAKER_02: 10:26

Yeah. See, I'm not the only one older you get, the less the music is for you.

SPEAKER_01: 10:31

Yeah, I'm not the only person on the planet.

SPEAKER_02: 10:32

So but speaking of music, this Friday, yeah, Taylor's new album comes out, OMG. I am so excited. I can't take it. So excited. All I'm gonna listen to all weekend. And then on Sunday from noon to three, while the Eagles are playing at one o'clock, no less. Oh no. My BFFF is taking me to a Taylor Swift brunch to celebrate the new album. Yeah. And I could not be more excited. So although all right, but before she speaks, let me say I was talking about this with my friend the other night, last night, I think. And she was like, Oh, poor Heather, I can't believe you're putting her through this, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, she's already planning her outfit. I haven't even thought that far. So don't tell me.

SPEAKER_01: 11:20

Look, I was going to, but then I remembered I think I gave my thigh high boots away.

SPEAKER_02: 11:24

Oh.

SPEAKER_01: 11:25

I know. Because I had thigh high boots. And then I got fatter. So I don't know if I got rid of my thigh high boots, but I'm gonna make it work. But look, here's the thing I I don't mind Taylor Swift. I really don't. Um I like her newer stuff. The country stuff I could probably live without, but um, like her newer stuff, I I don't mind.

SPEAKER_02: 11:42

Um, like my therapist, she said, you know, we discovered we were both Swifties, which makes therapy even more fun because now we use um Taylor Swift analogies for things. But um she um likes a lot of the same kind of music that you do and stuff. Well, not that old because she's 20 years younger than us, but um she said that her friend came to her when uh the tortured poets department came out, and she said, You have got to listen to this. And she was like, You mean the girl that sang Shake It Off? You think I'm gonna like her music? And they were like, I'm serious. Well, come to find out, my therapist loves sad music. She loves sad music, and that whole album is just breakups, except for the two songs about Travis, which just snuck in there right at the end before she put the album out. It's it's pretty heavy, it's pretty emotional.

SPEAKER_01: 12:40

Um, I under I hey, I understand why she's so popular. I do, I get it. She's beautiful. Uh, I I wish all the best for her. I think she's a great human being. She's a poet. I mean, the words she puts together are just beautiful. It's all lovely. Her song, it's it's not my cup of tea. Right. It's not your kind of music. Somebody went to an oddities thing with me, and in order to make a relationship work for 30 some years, yes, it's called fucking compromise. It is. And you have to do things that you might not want to do, and then you end up having a good time anyway. Exactly. And I'm gonna go with her reputation, right? A reputation era because she wore all black.

SPEAKER_02: 13:21

Yeah. I'm getting my nails done tomorrow, so I'm definitely doing orange. Um yeah, that's what this one is, right? Orange. Yeah, but you don't. I mean, people are gonna be showing up in all kinds of arrows. I'm gonna wear them. Yeah, you can totally as soon as I find my black.

SPEAKER_01: 13:34

I don't know if I gave I think I gave them away though.

SPEAKER_02: 13:37

Yeah. So I might need to go out and buy some orange clothes though, because I don't know if I have any.

SPEAKER_01: 13:42

Oh, I wish I I had no I have an orange sweater. Is it a cardigan?

SPEAKER_02: 13:47

No, it's a pullover. It might be too hot for a sweater on Sunday. Yeah. I don't know. It gives me an excuse to go shock.

SPEAKER_01: 13:57

Okay. Yeah, I'm good. Um, if if we'll see. There's a good possibility. We are recording this. Hello. Um whether that goes up or not is yet to be seen because it just took me like 45 minutes to get that fucking thing set up.

SPEAKER_02: 14:13

And we have no idea what this video is gonna look like.

SPEAKER_01: 14:16

So I am leaning over there. I don't know. I need to get a tripod. As soon as I get a tripod, then we're gonna do it more consistently.

SPEAKER_02: 14:22

But but I'm proud of Heather because she has been talking about wanting to get us YouTube. Yeah. This is all falls on her. She does pretty much I drive here and supply the fireball line. That's pretty much all I do. She does the socials.

SPEAKER_01: 14:38

I do, I do. Um, so my plan is because I am not real good at mastering editing a video. The YouTube version will video will probably, if we get there, will probably be unedited. You'll get to see us check our phones, drink our wine.

SPEAKER_02: 14:56

Yeah, I mean, this is this is it. It's raw. This is what we do.

SPEAKER_01: 15:00

I mean, I don't do much editing to begin with, though.

SPEAKER_02: 15:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 15:04

But I think that's what's so charming about us. About the ums and the the whatever. Yeah. Or if she says, You have to pause for a minute. I don't know why we whisper.

SPEAKER_02: 15:17

I don't want anybody in podcast land to hear me say it. You're gonna cut all this out, right? Yeah. Yeah, I think I think that pretty much recaps the week. I did watch a really good show on Netflix called Wayward. Have you seen the? It's new. It's creepy as fuck. It's a thriller, eight episodes, about an hour long. Um, basically, this town, this couple moves back to this town, wife is pregnant. Um, there are no children in this town, and there is this reform school that they all go to. Um, and yeah, it's it's pretty crazy. Yeah. Um I love a cult. Creepy scary lady. Yeah. Nobody will listen to the kids. Everybody's kind it reminded me a little bit of did you ever see Get Out? Yes. Man, I love that movie. I need to watch that again soon. I've been thinking about it a lot. But the way that they all act when they're like in a group and everybody's kind of like weird and of one mindset. Like, that's kind of how the townspeople are. It was it was creepy. I liked it. I highly recommend it. I will look into it. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. All right, you want to do our I do. So um listen to us wherever you get your podcasts. Yes. Like, share, rate, review, please. Please. Um you can find us on all the socials at like whatever pod. Um we are on YouTube, and hopefully soon we will actually have content. Um and oh, send us an email, likewhateverpod at gmail.com. We still got those free stickers. If anybody would like one, we do.

SPEAKER_01: 17:12

I should have brought some and held them up for you, but I didn't.

SPEAKER_02: 17:16

I know I keep meaning to like take a picture of it and post it so because maybe they'd like to see what the sticker looks like before they actually ask for one.

SPEAKER_01: 17:25

We are temporarily in this space. As soon as it's not 483,000 degrees, we will be moving to a more permanent place, and as soon as I get furniture for it, but whatever. Yeah. Um, so this this whole setup is very raw, janky.

SPEAKER_02: 17:40

Very raw. Yeah, it's it's not ideal. We have a 1950s folding card table here. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 17:49

So let's fuck around. I don't even know what this is, and find out uh the day this is releases. It's Friday, October 3rd, uh, which is my mother's birthday. So we're gonna fuck around and find out about all the things that have happened on October 3rd, and you are gonna be fucking shocked.

SPEAKER_02: 18:12

Yay! I am so excited, and I'm also jealous that your mom shares a birthday with the release date of Toyota.

SPEAKER_01: 18:21

I was just in shock of the stuff that happened. I I mean, obviously I didn't do everything that happens on because there's one thing that we're just not gonna be able to go in on in this, and I don't know that we ever will just because it's okay in Sandy, but we'll just I'm so excited. So, first I wanted to go way in the way back machine. Because on October 3rd, Lincoln proclaimed the last Thursday of November as a National Day of Thanksgiving, marking a significant moment in American history during the Civil War. Uh, it was issued during a tumultuous period in American history, specifically amongst the Civil War. His displa his decision to establish a National Day of Thanksgiving was influenced by a long campaign led by Sarah Joseph Hale, who advocated for a unified national holiday. I think we talked about this one on our Thanksgiving one.

SPEAKER_02: 19:14

Yeah, so this just made me think of something that was a heartwarming story I want to tell really, really quick. One of those shows that I watch, The Mystery at the Museum, blah, blah, blah. Like I always say, I can't remember which one it is. But anyway, I think it was World War II, and the Germans were in a trench, and the Americans were in a trench, and it was Christmas Eve, and they did like a ceasefire just amongst the like 50 men that were there. No one else knew. Um on Christmas Day, they came together and actually spent time together, and then we're like back to work, and they had to get back into the trenches, but it was nice to see beauty in such an awful thing that like the human spirit can be kind sometimes. Even in the worst of times, then in the last six months, even one of the trenches put up a flag that said Merry Christmas. Oh, I know, even though I hate Christmas. I know you do, but still, that's not the point.

SPEAKER_01: 20:19

So, in his proclamation, Lincoln expressed gratitude for the blessings of the nation. He invited all Americans to observe the last Thursday of November as a day of Thanksgiving and praise to God. The proclamation emphasized themes of unity, gratitude, and reflection on the nation's challenges and blessings. Um Lincoln's proclamation set a precedent for Thanksgiving as a national holiday, which was later solidified by FDR in 1939 when he designated the fourth Thursday of November as the official Thanksgiving day. I guess he made it a holiday. Lincoln's call for a day of gratitude during a time of national crisis resonated deeply with the American public and has continued to influence the observance of Thanksgiving in the United States. It's pretty cool. My dad's birthday falls on Thanksgiving sometimes.

SPEAKER_02: 21:08

Oh, does it? November 23rd.

SPEAKER_01: 21:11

Um, this one is technically not Gen X, but it's one of my favorite old-time TVs. We're gonna fucking talk about it. In 1961, the TV sitcom Mr. Ed premiered on CBS. Um, Mr. Ed's name was Bamboo Harvester. Uh, he was an American saddle-bred part Arabian horse that was known for portraying Mr. Ed on the 61 to 66 comedy series of the same name. He was folded in 1949. The gelding was trained by Will Rogers' protege, Les Hilton. He was born in the Los Angeles area, but some sources disagree as to whether his birthplace was in El Monte or at Harvester Farms in Chatsworth, California. But I'm gonna guess that his name was Bamboo Harvester, so he's probably born at the Harvester Farm. Sounds scandalous, though. What? Um in 1968, two years after the cancellation of Mr. Ed, at the age of 19, Bamboo began to suffer from a variety of age-related ailments, including kidney problems and arthritis, and he was euthanized in 1970. Poor Mr. A second Palomino horse named Pumpkin, alternately pumpkin, which had for still picking up though. Ooh. Which had, I don't know that they still do it. I think it moved somewhere else. Yeah, it's not yeah, I don't know. Um, pumpkin, which had posed for still pictures used in press kits for the show and some personal appearances, survived until 1979. Uh after Bamboo Harvester's death, the second horse was unofficially known as Mr. Ed. Now you know. There's two Mr. Eds. Did not know that. And his name was Bamboo Harvester. Uh I know they gave him like peanut butter or something. That's how he talked. Oh, yeah.

unknown: 23:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 23:07

In 1983. Okay. October 3rd, 1983. Paul McCartney and Michael Jackson's duet single, Say Say Say. Oh, what a good song. From Pipes, uh, from Paul's Pipes of Peace album. Um, in the UK, say, say, say is a song by the English singer, songwriter, and musician Paul McCartney and the American singer-songwriter Michael Jackson. In case you did not know who I don't know, two of the biggest names in music were. Today's your first day on earth.

SPEAKER_02: 23:40

Yeah. That is most definitely one of those songs that when I hear it, I think of the roller skating drink rink, roller skating rink every time. That was definitely roller rink. Mine is centerfold. I was gonna say the um the video too was excellent. I like the video. And yes, centerfold doesn't make me think of the skating rink, but it is probably my favorite song from that time.

SPEAKER_01: 24:02

It was definitely and all I can think of is the skating rink when I hear centerfold.

SPEAKER_02: 24:06

And I think how funny it must have been for all the adults to listen to us sing that song as little kids, having no idea what we were saying about for real.

SPEAKER_01: 24:15

She's my chamber. Just all of them are awesome. I mean, the so my first 45. Um, my my and it's I don't know why I have it or who got it for me. It had to have been a grandparent because my dad absolutely hates this person. But um, my first, and it was my favorite song, and I would walk around screaming it as a small child, Hot Legs by Ron Stewart. It's my favorite fucking song. My dad absolutely hates.

SPEAKER_02: 24:47

I'm I'm there with your dad. Not a big fan of Ron Stewart.

SPEAKER_01: 24:53

So um, it was released in October of 83 as the lead single from McCartney's 83 album, Pipes of Peace, produced by George Martin. It was recorded during production of McCartney's 1982 Tug of War album, about a year before the release of The Girl is Mine. Also a very good song. The pair's first duet from Jackson's album Thriller. After its release, Say Sei Sei became Jackson's seventh top ten hit inside of a year. It was the number one hit in the United States, Canada, Norway, Sweden, and several other countries, and it reached number two in the United Kingdom and peaked within the top ten in Australia, Austria, New Zealand, the Netherlands, Switzerland, and over 20 other nations. Um in 2013, it was listed as the 41st biggest hit of all time. It has been voted the ninth best collaboration of all time in Rolling Stone Reader Poll. I really should look that up because what is number one?

SPEAKER_02: 25:52

I don't know, but on the way down here on the radio, I heard Um Crazy for You by um Madonna. And it's been a long time. That is such a beautiful song. Her old stuff is really good. Yeah, I love her old stuff. I don't know where she went off the rails. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 26:06

She's gonna make an appearance in this episode.

SPEAKER_02: 26:09

Ooh, man, I am just foreshadowing all over the place.

SPEAKER_01: 26:14

The single was certified gold by the Recording Industry Association of America. Um, the single was promoted with an influential music video directed by Bob Garaldi. The short film centers around two con artists called Mac and Jack. Um McCartney biographer Ray Coleman asserted that the majority of the song's lyrics were written by Jackson and given to McCartney the next day. Recording began at Air Studios in London in May of 81. At the time, McCartney was recording Tug of War. Um that's his second album with Wings. Okay. Oh no, that's his second album after the breakup of Wings, the solo. Jackson stayed at the home of McCartney and his wife Linda during the recording sessions and became friends with both. While at the dining table one evening, Paul McCartney brought out a booklet that displayed all the songs to which he owned the publishing rights. This is the way to make big money, the musician informed Jackson. Every time someone records one of these songs, I get paid. Every time someone plays these songs on the radio or in live performances, I get paid. McCartney's words influenced Jackson's later purchase of ATV Music Publishing in 1985, which I believe has the entire Beatles catalog. McCartney played several instruments on Say Say Say, including percussion, synthesizer, and guitar. The harmonica was played by Chris Smith. The rhythm guitar was played by David Williams. Nathan Watts played bass, and drums were played by Ricky Lawson. Song was engineered by a former Beatles sound engineer. Um it was completed in February of 83. As keyboard player, Bill Wolfer recalled in a 2014 interview, he and Jackson worked on a rough sketch of the song based on the original acoustic demo with McCartney. Jackson's intention being to present the latter in his vision for the song. It soon evolved into a 24-track recording with a rhythm section, horns, and harmonica laid down, which Michael presented to McCartney instead, and this was kept in the final version. Very cool. George Martin, who had worked with the Beatles, produced the song. Um is this George R.R. Martin? I didn't say. He said of his experience with Jackson, he actually does radiate an aura when he comes into the studio. There's no question about it. He's not a musician in the sense that Paul is, but he does know what he wants in music and he has very firm ideas. And if you've worked with the Beatles, and then you say Michael Jackson has an aura when he walks into the room, I feel like that's uh for real. I mean, you worked with like the one of the biggest bands.

SPEAKER_02: 28:55

Yeah, I saw Paul Mc Paul McCartney at a music festival like 10 years ago, maybe, and he still got it, man.

SPEAKER_01: 29:02

I saw him, my mom made me go. Um, we were in nosebleed at the old vet. That's how long ago was at the vet veteran stadium.

SPEAKER_02: 29:10

Yeah, we were at the Firefly Music Festival, so it was outdoor. He was one of the headliners, so it was late at night, it was dark. Oh my god, his light show and his his singing is just still so intact. Like that's amazing. Yeah, and yeah, excellent show. He has a million times more energy than I have, and he's twice my age. Well, not twice. I guess he's not 104. He might be though, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01: 29:36

I want to say probably he's gotta be pushing 90, right? He has to. Here, I'll look at okay.

unknown: 29:43

Continue on.

SPEAKER_01: 29:46

It was a hot 100 for six weeks and became Jack, I told you that, breaking a record that until then was held jointly by the Beatles and Elvis Presley. As of 2023, it remains McCartney's final number one signal on the hot 100, either in a group or solo. Uh Say Say Say reached number two on the RB chart and number three on the hot adult contemporary chart. It also stated that it recorded Earning Top Spot as Jackson's best performing Hot 100 chart single after leading the charts for six weeks. Wow.

SPEAKER_02: 30:17

All right, Paul McCartney turned 83 on June 18th. So he's not that old. 1942, the year World War II ended. 45. I thought 40. Is it 42 when it started? Yeah, we got involved in 42. Okay. It ended in 45. Yeah. And terrible with dates. Yeah. But still, he's a World War II baby.

SPEAKER_01: 30:37

He is. And I will die on that hill. I mean, they were in the middle of World War II at that point.

SPEAKER_02: 30:44

So yeah, that is true. Yeah, true, true, true.

SPEAKER_01: 30:48

They were fully involved. Yeah, I bet his mom was a little stressed during that pregnancy. That was probably not a good time. Yeah. Um, blah, blah, blah. Uh so that's that's that. Okay, we'll move on. Nobody else cares. Oh, wait, no, I lied. Oh, on October 6, 2015, McCartney released a new version of the song in which the vocal roles of him and Jackson are reversed. It was remixed by Steve at Orchard and Mark Spike Stent. On the new version, which is over three minutes longer than the original, the opening of the first verse is sung by Jackson instead of McCartney. Orchard set of the remix, Paul remembered that there were two unused lead vocal performances by Michael and himself. We rearranged the vocal sequence and inverted the original performance so that Michael opened the first verse instead of Paul.

SPEAKER_02: 31:36

That's so cool. So when they first recorded it, they did it both ways. Yeah. And then decided which one they liked better.

SPEAKER_01: 31:43

It gave the song a different take on the original version. More specifically, Jackson sings the parts that McCartney had in the original, and vice versa, for much of the song. It appears on the 2015 reissue of Pipes of Peace. A radio edit of the new remix was released for streaming on the 30th of October of 2015. And it is on the compilation Pure McCartney. So in 1992. But uh the Queen of Pop singer Malana premiered her erotic, erotic erotica.

SPEAKER_02: 32:27

Remember when that book came out? I had that book. That was some hubbub.

SPEAKER_01: 32:30

I had that book. It was in French. Yeah, because you couldn't get it in English. And I don't know how I got it. I remember that you had that book. Yeah, I had it in French. Um big Madonna fan here. I saw the erotica tour. That was my second. That was her second, the second tour I saw of hers. I saw one before maybe was that the first one or was that the second one? No, it was the first one. That was the first one, and I saw her again after that. But yeah. It was funny too because um not I I made Christine go to that one. But the second one I went to, um, I went with a friend of mine who I remember haven't seen in a very long time. And uh she she loves I mean I remember.

SPEAKER_02: 33:15

She loves I remember how excited she was.

SPEAKER_01: 33:17

She was stupid excited. Yeah. And um, so we went and you know, we were way up pretty high. And then you could see the floor seats and everything, and she had a and she's like, Well, how much were those floor seats? And I was like, I don't know, they were like four or five thousand dollars. And this was like this is probably like late 90s, early 2000s.

SPEAKER_02: 33:37

Dude, I saw on Facebook that the FEMS are the violent femmes are um touring and they're gonna be in Wilmington, which would be a small venue here in Little Delaware. So I went on, I was like, oh, tickets were like two, three hundred bucks a piece for the cheap ones. Yeah. In Little Wilmington. Yeah, well, at Freeman, they're like a buck seventy-five. That's nuts.

SPEAKER_01: 33:58

Yeah, they do a good, good, good job.

SPEAKER_02: 34:00

I mean, they deserve it, but no, I don't think they have any control over it, but yeah, but on in a little venue like that, uh in an old band, like yeah, I can't believe they charge that much.

SPEAKER_01: 34:10

When she finally did come out, when she came out on stage, you know, we had, you know, she does the whole build-up, blah, blah, blah. And when she did come out on the stage, my friend leaned over and she was like, Oh, yeah, I'd have paid$6,000 for that.

SPEAKER_02: 34:25

That is one of those things, if I could afford it, like if I had disposable money, I would pay top dollar to see somebody I really wanted to see up close.

SPEAKER_01: 34:34

Depeche mode, yes.

SPEAKER_02: 34:36

Yeah, because like when I went to Firefly, so this was a four-day festival. Um, it started like 11 in the afternoon and ran until like two o'clock in the morning, and you knew the schedule and you knew the stages. So I went when um Mike D was performing, yeah, and I waited for like three hours leaning on the front of the stage or the gate across the front of the stage. I was like, there is no way I am not gonna be up close for this. And it was everybody that filled in around me, all my age. We were all like, fuck that. And it was awesome. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01: 35:15

Ocean's calling was this past weekend, and I wanted to go to Friday, like the rest of the weekend. I mean, they had good stuff, but Fridays made it.

SPEAKER_02: 35:23

They did. I had some friends that went and they were posting about it, and I was like, damn, like Green Day. Green Day, yeah. And I heard he put on a great show.

SPEAKER_01: 35:30

Yeah. Green Day Devo. Like it was Friday's show, it was fucking amazing. Yeah. My uh he ran into Michelle Branch on on uh Saturday. Get out.

SPEAKER_02: 35:43

That's who she was eating.

SPEAKER_01: 35:44

Um, she she went uh Sunday, she performed Sunday.

SPEAKER_03: 35:48

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_01: 35:49

Apparently she's married to the drummer from the Black Keys. Oh, excuse me. I know I found that out. I don't I like the Black Keys too. I don't have any idea how they're sorry, sorry, Black Keys, if you're listening.

SPEAKER_02: 36:00

You'd know it if you heard it.

SPEAKER_01: 36:02

I doubt it. So yeah, Madonna, erotica. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That is a cool one. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 36:09

I have a 45 and I know I still have it. I just don't know where it is, but I know within the past two, three years I have had laid eyes on it, so I know I still have it. But I got the original um true blue 45. Oh, it's blue? And it's blue. Oh, I bet that thing's worth money. I know, I know. Uh yeah. I can't decide if I want to look into selling it or sad.

SPEAKER_01: 36:32

Look and see.

SPEAKER_02: 36:33

Depends on how much it's worth.

SPEAKER_01: 36:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 36:35

If not, if it's not worth it's only worth a couple hundred bucks, maybe not, but it would be fun to display too, though. Because it's really pretty.

SPEAKER_03: 36:43

It's pretty.

SPEAKER_01: 36:45

Okay. This one. We're all gonna remember this one. I did not realize it was on October 3rd. I'm so excited right now. On October 3rd, also 1992. Oh, not only did was Erotica released, uh-huh, the Irish singer-songwriter Sinead O'Connor appeared as a musical guest on the American television program Saturday Night Live. She staged a protest against the Catholic Church while performing a rendition of Bob Marley's 1976 song War. She held a photograph of Pope John Paul II up to the camera, tore it into pieces, said fight the real enemy, and threw the pieces to the floor. She wasn't wrong.

unknown: 37:30

No.

SPEAKER_01: 37:32

He has since apologized for that.

SPEAKER_02: 37:34

Um he apologized for it?

SPEAKER_01: 37:36

For for taking her.

SPEAKER_02: 37:38

For making her so angry?

SPEAKER_01: 37:39

No, no, not the Pope. Um, what's his name? From SNL.

unknown: 37:44

Why can't I think of his name?

SPEAKER_02: 37:45

Oh, the guy that runs it? Yes. Why can't I think of his name?

SPEAKER_01: 37:47

Fuck. Um Lauren Michaels. Lauren Michaels, he has since apol has said that he should not he should not have um kicked her off and not let her back on. It was see, he rereaded that.

SPEAKER_02: 37:59

Yeah, free speech is a real thing, people. Oh, Lord, for more foreshadowing. I swear to God, she I didn't even know the topic till I got here, let alone see the script.

SPEAKER_01: 38:09

I didn't even bother sending it to her.

SPEAKER_02: 38:10

This is how unsync we are.

SPEAKER_01: 38:12

In an interview, a few weeks after the performance, O'Connor said she held the Catholic Church responsible for physical, sexual, and emotional abuse she had suffered as a child. Wow. She also said that the church had destroyed entire races of people and that the Catholic priests had been beating and sexually abusing children for years. O'Connor's performance took place nine years before John Paul II publicly acknowledged child sexual abuse in the Catholic Church.

SPEAKER_02: 38:38

Oh, it only took him nine years after that to say, oh yeah, I guess maybe that might happen.

SPEAKER_01: 38:44

Yeah. The protest the protest triggered thousands of complaints from viewers. It attracted criticism from the Catholic Church and also brought criticism from the Anti-Defamation League and celebrities, including Catholics Joe Pesci and Madonna. Which I okay, here's the thing. I get it, she is Catholic, but Madonna, come on.

SPEAKER_02: 39:05

Like Exactly. I mean, she's another woman.

SPEAKER_01: 39:09

She's like a prayer. Have you seen that? Yeah. Like you got into so much bullshit on your Yeah. Yeah. They both mocked the performance on SNL later that season. Two weeks after her SNL appearance, O'Connor was booed as a 30th anniversary tribute concert for Bob Dylan at Madison Square Garden in New York City.

SPEAKER_02: 39:29

So many Karen's in this world. Yeah. Never even in 92. No.

SPEAKER_01: 39:33

Nevertheless, O'Connor said she did not regret her act as she felt miscast in the role of a pop star. She saw herself as a protest singer. After the Catholic Church cover-up of abuse became public, retrospective opinion toward O'Connor, especially after she died in 2023, shifted in support of her.

SPEAKER_02: 39:51

I hope she felt some empowerment because that would have been really, really, really hard on so many levels. Like you're on public TV, you know you're going to get backlash for this. It's not like you're going to stand there and tear up a picture of the Pope and nobody's going to say a word about it. And you're sharing that you've been sexually abused. Yeah. Um, no matter who it's from. So yeah, I mean, I hope she got some sort of validation from that, even with all the backlash.

SPEAKER_01: 40:20

But I in 2020, Time named O'Connor the most influential woman of 1992 for her protest. Yep. Daniel Glass, an executive at Sinead O'Connor Record Label, said that by 92 she was not getting a lot of love. She was controversial, she hadn't had a hit in a while. In 90, O'Connor had written withdrawn from a scheduled appearance on the American television show's SNL when she learned it was to be hosted by Andrew Dice Clay, who she said was disrespectful to women. True. She's not wrong. She had been criticized for refusing to allow the Star Spangled Banner to be played before one of her shows in New Jersey. Later that year. First of all, who is going to a Sinead O'Connor concert and is like, why aren't you playing the national anthem? Who? Who? Why were you there? They never play a national anthem. No. I have never played. Never been to an event. I mean, they might at like country shows, but if you're going to see Sinead O'Connor, I don't feel like you're into country music.

SPEAKER_02: 41:20

Right. And she's Irish, so why would she have the American National Anthem flag?

SPEAKER_01: 41:29

Well, and it was also New Jersey, so I mean. Sorry, New Jersey. All right, my family's from New Jersey. Let's insert commercial here.

SPEAKER_02: 41:43

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SPEAKER_01: 42:02

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SPEAKER_02: 42:21

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SPEAKER_01: 42:39

1990 MTV Music Awards. She made a speech connecting her experience of radio censorship with the industry censorship of black artists. She boycotted the 33 annual Grammy Awards and refused to accept the Grammy she won a few months later after writing a letter to the Recording Academy criticizing the music industry as materialistic. She was raped Catholic and criticized the Catholic Church for its positions on birth control and divorce. And she forced her way in 92 into the uh Irish Parliament to speak uh to the Prime Minister Albert Reynolds regarding the ex-case in which a 14-year-old rape victim sought an abortion.

SPEAKER_02: 43:22

Yeah, I mean she talked the talk and walked the walk, so yes. I don't think I realized how much advocacy work that she had done.

SPEAKER_01: 43:31

Um she performed the a cappella version of Bob Marley's 76 song War, wearing a necklace with the Rastafarian star and scarf with the Rastafari and Ethiopian colors. Um The photo that she had was taken during John Paul's second 1979 visit to Ireland, and it had hung in her mother's bedroom until her death when O'Connor was 18. Since then, she had been waiting for the right moment to destroy it. Is that the picture she shredded? Yes. Get the fuck out. That's so epic. Yeah. She said she took the idea of ripping it up on camera from the Boomtown Rats, whose lead singer Bob Geldoff had shredded a photo of John Travolta and Olivia Newton John on the British television program Top of the Pops.

SPEAKER_02: 44:25

Wow. They must hate Grease 2.

SPEAKER_01: 44:28

I can't blame them. Grease 2, much better movie. Oh my god. Michelle Pfeiffer. Come on, you really should. It's epic. I want to. Olivia Newton John.

unknown: 44:44

Cool.

SPEAKER_01: 44:45

The SNL producers were not aware of O'Connor's plan. During the dress rehearsal, she had helped held up a picture of a refugee child. Glass said that everyone at SNL froze after the live performance, unsure how to react. And the music producer Liz Welch went from jubilation to tears. The NBC vice president at late night television, Rick Ludwin, recalled that when he saw what O'Connor had done, he literally jumped out of his chair. The executive producer Lauren Michael said the air went out the studio and that he ordered that the applause sign should not be used. The audience remained silent, and O'Connor returned to her dressing room where Glass found her talking to herself. A nationwide audience saw O'Connor's live performance, which the New York Daily News front page dubbed a holy terror. NBC received more than 500 calls on Sunday, which doesn't seem like a lot. And 400 more on Monday. Again, that's only 900 calls. Like of all the people that watched that.

SPEAKER_02: 45:45

Like, why is that stat even public anywhere?

SPEAKER_01: 45:47

Who cares? Oh, and and then okay. With all but seven criticizing O'Connor, it received 4,400 calls in total. Again, still doesn't seem like a lot. Yeah. I mean, it was 92 though. Maybe I don't know. Contrary to it was probably a long distance.

SPEAKER_02: 46:06

There were probably also a lot of people who would um protest a lot or would disagree with a lot of things, but had been through similar situations that she had been through and decided to just keep their trap shut.

SPEAKER_01: 46:20

Contrary to the rumor, NBC was not fined by the FCC, which has no regulatory power over such behavior in 1992. It's called the First Amendment, everyone. They had no regulatory power over such behavior in 1992.

SPEAKER_02: 46:38

Yes. Back in 92, you were allowed to say things on TV and not get your show canceled and then restarted.

SPEAKER_01: 46:46

NBC did not edit the performance out of the West Coast tape delayed broadcast that night. I love it. But they did ban her for life. Um she probably didn't want to come back anyway. John Joe Pesci's monologue featuring the tape up photo and the comments about O'Connor. Oh, yeah, he tore it up. The following week's episode was hosted by Joe Pesci, who was raised Catholic, holding up the photo. She had torn up. He explained that he had taped it back together to applause. He added that if O'Connor had appeared on an episode he was hosting, he would have grabbed her by the eyebrows and would have gave her such a smack.

SPEAKER_02: 47:22

Well, that hurts my feelings because I like Joe Pesci, but I mean, would you have expected literally anything else from Joe Pesci? True. And Sinead totally could have taken him. He's just a little fucker.

SPEAKER_01: 47:36

Criticism continued to the in the following days. The Catholic Cardinal Bernard Francis Law, who in 2002 resigned as Archbishop of Boston for covering up abuse, called the act a gesture of hate and neo-anti-Catholicism. The Anti-Defamation League condemned O'Connor and misconstrued her Rasta emblem as a Jewish symbol. Joseph Swilling of the Post described the protest as an act of hatred and intolerance that promoted violence. What about sexual abuse?

SPEAKER_02: 48:13

Nobody mentioned that. No.

unknown: 48:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 48:20

She initially planned to hold a press conference in London, but feared this would become a media circus. Instead, she sent a letter to several major news organizations. She wrote that she had suffered childhood abuse due to the suffering of the Irish under the British, a phenomenon she blamed on the Catholic Church, and added the story of my people is the story of the Americ of the African people, the Jewish people, the American Indian people, the South American people. The story of countless millions of children whose families and nations were torn apart for money in the name of Jesus Christ. Man, that's that was quite a statement. The American singer Madonna, who was raised Catholic, appeared on SNL later that season. After performing her single bad girl, she held up a picture of the sex offender Joey Budafuco, said, fight the real enemy, and tore it up. I mean Madonna criticized O'Connor in the Irish Times, saying that dialogue was better than performance art to express any problems she had with the church. I mean, I disagree with that. She did tear up a picture of Joey Botofuco, so like she could have been, you know.

SPEAKER_02: 49:26

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 49:28

She made a point too. She did.

SPEAKER_02: 49:30

Yeah, all these fuckers should have their pictures shredded.

SPEAKER_01: 49:35

Uh, in an interview with Bob Guccione Jr. a year earlier, O'Connor had mentioned that despite Madonna being admired as a campaigner for women's rights, she had slagged off, saying, I look like I had run in with a lawnmower and that I was about as sexy as a Venetian blind. In 93 editorial, he called Madonna's newly refound faith convenient and described her criticism of O'Connor to opportunism as she sought to say in the news while promoting her album Erotica and her book Sex, both of which he planned. The New York Times photojournalist John Perrell wrote that Madonna's response may have been professional jealousy after O'Connor stole the spotlight from her. Because she had released Erotica earlier in the day.

SPEAKER_02: 50:22

Yeah, man. We talked about this last week or the week before, man. Support women. It's not pie. There's enough, you know, you're not getting anything taken away from you by supporting someone else. I mean, Madonna was young then. I'm sure the world is crazy. But yeah. It would have been nice if someone would have supported Shanade a little bit more.

SPEAKER_01: 50:46

Two weeks after her appearance on SNL, O'Connor performed at the 30th anniversary tribute concert for Bob Dylan at Madison Square Garden, New York City. On stage, the actor and country singer Chris Christofferson introduced her as an artist whose name has become synonymous with courage and integrity. The audience booed as O'Connor stood with her head bowed. Christopherson was supposed to lead her off the stage, but instead whispered to her, Don't let the bastards get you down. To which she replied, I'm not down. Good for Chris Christofferson.

SPEAKER_03: 51:15

Yes.

SPEAKER_01: 51:16

Um she was supposed to sing Um I Believe in You by Bob Dylan, but she waved them off and began singing War Acapella instead, as she had done at SNL. She left the stage in tears and was confront comforted by Christofferson. Her performance was not included on the live album of the events. Ew.

SPEAKER_02: 51:45

Alright, so real quick then, if we're done with Sinead, I you said somebody and their last name was Lol, and it reminded me of a show I meant to bring up at the beginning. And it is a little bit Gen X.

unknown: 51:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 51:56

It's not, but the two main characters are. So it's on um Netflix also, and it's called Black Rabbit. Have you seen I have heard of it. And it takes place in a restaurant, so there's a check mark for you. Um but it stars Jude Law and my favorite Jason Bateman, or just both very handsome men. Um now Jason Bateman does not um wear the looks that I like. Like he's either Grizzly Adams or he's got a mullet, depending on where we're at in the story. But I still love him in Jude Law. My God, that man is handsome as hell. Um, but their brothers have been through trauma, got left a restaurant by their dad. One brother's a fuck up, one seems like he's straight and narrow, but you know, yeah, they've all been through trauma, so trauma is so much fun. Love it, love it. What will my life be without trauma? Um, so anyway, just wanted to put that in there because they are uh two of our our guys from from back then and it was a really good show. But if you're in your fields, you don't want to watch it because yeah, it's a little depressing.

SPEAKER_01: 53:15

Um Chris Opperson released a song in tribute to O'Connor, Sister Sinead, on his 2009 album, Closer to the Bone. Um you have to go listen to some Chris Christofferson stuff and watch some of his movies because I love that. The filmmaker Olivia Wilde wrote that she remains an example of the power of provoking necessary if unpopular conversations. Um in the first episode aired after O'Connor's death. An SNL weekend update segment briefly referenced the incident as an example of a great musical performance. Keenan Thompson, in character as Deion Sanders, called O'Connor a brave lady. NBC did not rebroadcast the live performance unedited until 2025 when it was featured in the documentary from Ladies and Gentlemen, 50 Years of SNL Music. In it, Lauren Michael stated that he had admired the bravery of what she'd done and also the absolute sincerity of it, though no mention was made of prior negative comments from him or the show. Reruns of the episode replaced the performance with the dress rehearsal, and previous documentaries, such as SNL Backstage, would edit out her ripping the photo apart. All right. This one we're gonna go. I didn't even write it out because there's no reason. Oh Jesus. It's this, it's the same thing.

SPEAKER_02: 54:40

You just like went really, really deep and dark.

unknown: 54:50

1995.

SPEAKER_01: 54:52

All right, I'm ready. OJ Simpson was acquitted. Shut the fuck up. The media circus that defined the 90s and traped shaped true crime obsession. Yes, he was acquitted because the globe did not fit.

SPEAKER_02: 55:08

Dude, I will give that what was what was his lawyer's name? Oh, um fuck. Oh, I can see his face. Yeah. Anyway, I know one of them was Kim Kardashian's dad. One was Effley Bailey. One was Kardashian. Yeah, one was Kardashian. But I'm talking about the main dude. Yeah. Um fuck. Anyway. And my phone is way down there. Although I don't it annoys the piss out of me if the glove doesn't fit, you must have quit. Because no. You have all this other evidence. Maybe somebody else was with him. Maybe that glove was just laying there on the street and it was somebody else's, and it got blood on it from the whole thing. I mean, Johnny Cochran.

SPEAKER_01: 55:52

Johnny Cochrane. Okay, so the thing of it was is that was Darden's idea to make him put the gloves on. And Marcia Clark told him no, that they should not do it because the glove had been soaked in blood and was not going to fit him. A because he had arthritis so bad, and because the glove had shrunk. Yep. Meanwhile, if this if that had happened today, he would have hands down. Hands down. The DNA alone would have gotten him. But DNA was so new then.

SPEAKER_02: 56:20

Right. And he was a rock star. And I have to say, like right here, real quick, because this happened, something happened with this this week. I have a really hard time being upset with professional football players specifically who do terrible things in their end of life because CTE is a fucking bitch.

SPEAKER_01: 56:42

Um last podcast on the left just did a three-part series on Ana Aaron Hernandez.

SPEAKER_02: 56:47

Right. And then just this week, um the former player who went into the NFL headquarters about a month or two ago and killed four people, he was angry because they didn't tell him back then what CT. They knew, but they didn't tell him what was gonna happen to him in his as he got older. And I I just and even with OJ, you know, I it's a horrible disease. I mean, I really think we don't need to just say, you know, it's head injuries and it's CT and football players get it. Like I think they really need to talk about that more because I don't think these guys can control what they're doing. I really don't.

SPEAKER_01: 57:31

And they were Junior Sayoff shot himself in the chest so that he could his brain could be exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_02: 57:38

So and these guys didn't know at the time, and granted, people still play knowing the consequences, and that's their choice to make. Yeah, but those guys specifically back then who are like our age now, yeah, they had no idea. They were strictly being used to make money, yeah, and nobody gave a shit about their well-being. And it's really hard for me, even with OJ. I mean, I think he's guilty as shit. He was jealous, he was enraged.

SPEAKER_01: 58:09

So um one of the hosts of last podcast on the left is a huge Dolphins fan. Okay, has always been a Dolphins fan. Um, Ed Larson. And he was the one that did usually it's Marcus that does them, and then um he did do one on uh SeaWorld. Okay, and then he did this one because he's a he was a huge football fan. But he said that within the last year or so, he has really fallen out of love with football because of he played in high school and he said the time that he played was awful. He said he was it was abuse just all the way around.

SPEAKER_02: 58:48

It is, and you see then them even today with all the coverage and and all the attention to it, you will see a guy who has no clue where he is getting taken into that blue tent, and then they're like, Oh, you're fine, put your helmet on, get back out there. Yeah, I mean, they're really not trying to and and then they make those helmets look so ridiculous. You look like the alien from uh fucking what was that show back in our day? Uh the Jetsons, was he on there? Oh, and the Flintstones. The Flintstones, that's the one. Yeah. I mean, they make them look obscene and and people make fun of these guys wearing them, but fuck that. If I were them, I'd be like, you put if I need to wear a mattress around my head and I can still perform my job, I'm gonna do it. And you see these guys fall flat on their heads and bend their necks, and you see the helmet to helmets, and you see all that stuff, and I mean, I just can't be mad at no somebody for they don't have any control over it. Their brains are mush. Mush. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 59:54

But continue with their story, so yeah, OJ OJ was acquitted. I mean, I think if you don't know the story. Of that, then I don't know.

SPEAKER_02: 1:00:01

And the thing with that too, though, I mean, you murdered two people, two people. So and then you went on to do bad things.

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:10

Then you went on to write a goddamn book that is titled If I Fucking Did It. Yes. And explain exactly how you would have done it had you done it.

SPEAKER_02: 1:00:24

Yes. And you broke into people's houses to steal your own shit. Like he obviously didn't need to be on the street. Yeah. He need I don't say he murdered two people, so he should be in jail. But he needed help is what he needed.

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:42

October 3rd, 2008, former NFL star O.J. Simpson was found guilty of charges of kidnapping and armed robbery. He was in on the same exact day in 2008.

SPEAKER_02: 1:00:54

He was like, oh shit, it's October 3rd. I got shit to do. Okay, so. Moving on. Are we moving on from OJ? We're gonna move on from OJ. All right, well, I'm not ready yet. Okay, go ahead. So I remember when it's a very Gen X story. When when OJ was acquitted, I was working in the Christiana mall at the Wild Pear Shoe Store. One of my favorite jobs of all time. Um anyway, um the Foot Locker had TVs. Yes. And we didn't have social media back then. You found out news on the TV as it happened. So employees of the mall, customers, everybody was jam-packed in this footlocker so that we could watch the verdict. I got goosebumps right now, just even thinking about it, like it was it was crazy. And everybody was upset because we didn't understand CTE back then, and everybody thought he was guilty. So yeah, it was I I I got the verdict in them all.

SPEAKER_01: 1:02:00

I was working and we had a bar next door um that we frequented a lot. Oh, so the the funniest part about this bar was um we knew the owners, obviously, because you're right next door. Um, blah, blah, blah. Anyway, so when it was slow, me and the other cook would go sit in the bar and drink, and then the waitress would call when we would get a table, and then we would just come over and cook.

SPEAKER_02: 1:02:29

To the genius system.

SPEAKER_01: 1:02:30

To the point where the guy that had the bar one of the co-owners of the bar was like, Why don't you just bring that food over here and cook it over here? Then you don't have to keep going back and forth. Genius. I know. Um, so he called us and was like, hey, they're about to announce the verdict. So we all like went, we were all like, lock the doors, turn it on the door. We're heading next door. And we went and stood there and watched it. Yeah. Good old Casey's. Yeah. Yep. So can we move on now? Just a quick shout out to one of our favorite sponsors, Old Glory. If your wardrobe is 40% pop culture references and 60% emotional baggage, they've got you covered.

SPEAKER_02: 1:03:12

They've got Banties, horror merch, feminist icons, retro cartoons, basically everything you wish you still had from your high school closet, but now in adult sizes and emotional stability.

SPEAKER_01: 1:03:25

Use code like whatever for 15% off at oldglory.com because nostalgia should be wearable and slightly ironic. October 3rd, 1990. I'm also not going to go on about this because I am kind of, but I'm not gonna because 1990. 1990. There's a lot. I mean, this is all this deserves a whole episode of its own.

SPEAKER_02: 1:03:46

I was a senior in high school.

SPEAKER_01: 1:03:48

East and West Germany reunified. A major post-cold war milestone. German reunification, also known as the expansion of the Federal Republic of Germany, was the process of re-establishing Germany as a single sovereign state, which began in on November 9th, 1989, and culminated on the 3rd of October, 1990, with the dissolution of the German Democratic Republic and the integration of its re-established constituent federated states into the Federal Republic of Germany. The date was chosen as the customary German Unity Day and has thereafter been celebrated each year as a national holiday. On the same date, East and West Berlin were also reunified into a single city, which eventually became the capital of Germany.

SPEAKER_02: 1:04:36

I can say, like, they always ask you if you could have dinner with anybody dead or alive or blah blah blah. But if you if you could be at any event, yes, I would have fucking loved to help tear down that wall and just been in there. That had to have been you just want to see David Hasselhoff. Oh Lord David Hasselhoff.

SPEAKER_01: 1:05:00

So it's so crazy to me. Like the fact that people now have no idea that that ever even happened. Like we watched them tear down a wall on TV.

SPEAKER_02: 1:05:11

I can I still have visuals in my head of the video of people. I mean, it looks like it looks, you know, people have sledgehammers and literally it was it was literally uh um I'm not gonna be able to come up with the words, but it was a visual of independence. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:05:35

Like that's a rare thing to get. Because you know, on the one side it was like it was just a stark eastern block. It's like Northern Korea. Yeah. And then the other side was painted all up with graffiti, and it was it was Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it was it was uh certainly something. And you know, and you you know, you just bebop along in your life now, and you don't think about these things until you're doing research for a podcast.

SPEAKER_02: 1:06:07

And I mean it's true, but it's funny how the world really hasn't changed. I was listening to NPR on the way down, and either yesterday or today the Taliban cut the internet to Afghanistan. Um there were kids, uh teenagers intaking some sort of not state testing, because that's what we call it here, but whatever. Um, and it went out halfway through, and they said the boys will have a opportunity to do it again, but there are so few schools that girls are allowed to study at there now that they're that was it for them. So they're not gonna get to retake this test. And a lot of the females there that are studying are um doing it online because they're not allowed in schools over there. Um, but they're cutting information and just when you think about like I don't even know. I don't even feel like it's 2025 means anything anymore. Like this shit just there's always something. It's just it's it's the times that we are in currently. I just I just wish the bad people didn't always win.

SPEAKER_01: 1:07:22

I say that every goddamn day in my life. When is it my turn? Um on a lighter note, October 3rd, if you know mean girls. Um he asked me what day it was. It's October 3rd.

unknown: 1:07:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:07:40

Oh yeah. Um Wednesdays we wear pink.

SPEAKER_02: 1:07:43

I post that on social media every October 3rd.

SPEAKER_01: 1:07:45

Yes, so if you but what I wanted to do is um because it's my fucking podcast, I can do what the fuck I want. That's right. Um, I wanted to read to you something from uh Mean Girls? No. Oh no. D Snyder.com.

SPEAKER_02: 1:08:06

D Snyder. Oh.

SPEAKER_01: 1:08:07

I'm gonna read it word for word.

SPEAKER_02: 1:08:09

Is that the lead singer of Twisted Sister?

unknown: 1:08:11

Yes.

SPEAKER_01: 1:08:11

I'm gonna read it word for word. All right for you.

SPEAKER_02: 1:08:14

I'm here for it.

SPEAKER_01: 1:08:15

Um it has nothing to do with October 3rd.

SPEAKER_02: 1:08:18

But it's your fucking podcast.

SPEAKER_01: 1:08:20

And I can do what the fuck I want.

SPEAKER_02: 1:08:22

Yeah. Even say fuck as much as she wants.

SPEAKER_01: 1:08:27

Yes. Fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck. Okay. I went the wrong way. Here we go. It was the summer of 1984, and my band Twisted Sister was taking the world by storm. With our angst-filled teen anthem, We're not gonna take it, we were dominating music, radio, and television airwaves and igniting the fire of rebellion in the hearts and minds of American youth. As we rode in our tour bus from town to town playing show after show, little did we realize that a cultural guillotine awaited us. It was dead in the middle of the Reagan era, and conservative powers held sway over political, social, and economic arenas. There was no place for a bunch of painted up, foul mouth preening rockers, but as is usually the case, when conservatism reigns, the arts leaned decidedly in the opposite direction, hence the nickname The Decade of Decadence. Loud and very proud, things were very clearly headed for an impasse. The blowback came in a surprising form. The Parents Music Resource Center, PRM PMRC, quite an innocuous name for such a subversive-minded group, led by the caricature-like spouses of notable Democratic and Republican senators, it was hard to take these Stepford wives seriously. Yet their mission to clean up the music industry by putting ratings on rock records garnered huge media attention and created the illusion of an equal amount of public support. Far from being the moral majority, this a bullying minority made a lot of noise. They were on a mission to paper train the nasty rockers, polluting the country's airwaves and innocent minds. By the summer of '85, the PMRC's censorship symphony had reached a crescendo, and it was announced that there would be an illegal Senate hearing to discuss the issue of porn rock. They didn't call it illegal. I did. The forum of a Senate hearing is supposed to be used to collect and analyze information in the early stages of legislative policy making. As the committee chair, Senator John Danforth, said in his opening remarks, the reason for this hearing is not to promote any legislation. Still, somehow the wives of some pretty prominent politicians convince their husbands that an ex exemption should be made. One can only imagine in the pillow talk between Tipper and Al Gore, or Susan and James Baker, that led the misuse of public funds. Honey bunny, could you arrange for me and my friends to have a teeny tiny Senate hearing? The circus like hearings on september nineteenth were a magnet for media outlets, and the attention this farce garnered was unprecedented. No matter which side you stood on, it seemed everyone, except unfortunately most of the young music fans actually affected by this tragedy, travesty, wanted to watch this car wreck of injustice. Unbeknownst to the general public and to the artists set to testify, the RIAA, the music industry trade group lobbying arm, had already made a side deal with the senators and the PMRC agreeing to a voluntary modified label, the now legendary warning parental advisory, in place of the Washington wives' demands for more content-specific labeling. B for violence, sexual content, O for a cult. This essentially negated any effort the unholy trinity of Frank Zappa, John Benderer, and myself invited there to speak on behalf of the artist might make and made our being there moot. There was no way for us to win. Yet I did welcome the opportunity to show the PMRC that the Senate subcommittee how you should not judge a book by its heavy metal cover. Their indignant reactions to my 80s rock star look and their drop jaws when I proceeded to take every one of their arguments apart were priceless. I urge you to watch it as cSPAN.org. The raw hatred I saw in Al Gore's eyes when I said Tipper Gore had a dirty mind for interpreting my song under the blade as being about sadomasochism and bondage. It was actually written about my guitarist throat operation. Really should have vetted me better before allowing me to speak. Sadly, the aftermath of this debacle was even worse than I feared. Our First Amendment constitutional right to freedom of speech has been eroded. Yet the average record buyer was apathetic. The most typical comment about the sticker was, now we know which records to buy. Um, while I wish the warning stickers became and have continued to become so ubiquitous that original voluntary usage agreed upon has since been replaced with mandatory placement. I remember when my band Widowmaker was set to release its first CD back in 1992, I was told that due to its offensive lyric contact, my record would have the parental advisory on it. When I told my record company that, since this was a voluntary action, I did not want to volunteer to have my album stickered. They curtly informed me I didn't have a choice. They stickered the records, and if I wanted my CD released, I would have the warning on it. To make matters worse, in an effort to save time and money, record companies had gone from putting stickers on the CD to actually incorporating the sticker onto the album art. Yep. I remember that. Thirty years later, everything and nothing has changed. The ultra-conservatives still want to dictate to the masses what they remember, this is Dee Snyder, not me. Thirty years later, everything and everything nothing has changed. The ultra-conservatives still want to dictate to the masses what they deem acceptable for the general public to see and hear. The record industry is a mere shadow of its former self at punishment for its cowardice, and CDs and vinyl albums have almost become novelties in a world driven by downloads. Yet the warning labels still adorn individual track listings and albums online.

SPEAKER_02: 1:14:10

It says explicit next to uh Spotify if the song has a cuss word in it.

SPEAKER_01: 1:14:15

Twisted Sisters, we're not gonna take it. One of the PMRC's legendary filthy 15 has become a political go-to song, a rock and jock anthem beloved by young and old alike, and in an iconic twist, it was sung by a PMRC-like women's organization at the Evil Rocker played by Tom Cruise in the movie Rock of Ages. Oh Jesus fucking Christ. While initially my appearance at those Senate hearings was damaging to my career and reputation, long term it was beneficial, showing people for the first time that I was much more than a screaming, raggedy Anne on acid, and a fairly intelligent, sentient, sentient human being. Fortunately, I have gone on to better things. My arch nemesis, Alan Tipper Gore, are long divorced. While this October 23rd, my wife Suzette and I will have celebrated our 34th wedding anniversary.

SPEAKER_03: 1:15:01

Nice.

SPEAKER_01: 1:15:02

You're damn right I'm bragging. I wasn't throwing stones at their glasshouse, and I can proudly say for the last 30 years I have stood by, lived, and represented every single statement and claim I made in my speech that fateful September day. FYI, it was my son's third birthday. Let it be shown. If the threat of government censorship ever rears its ugly, perfectly quaffed head again, I am ready, willing, and able to drag my shaggy mop back in battle. Dee Snyder continue continues to create, sing, act, right, and his podcast, Snyder Comments, and weekly syndicated radio show, House of Hair, can be heard nationally. He lives in Las Vegas with his wife, Suzette, in pro close proximity to their four healthy grandchildren and their three wonderful grandchildren. And what I would like to say is um thank you to Pat for posting that on social media the other day, and that is what gave me the idea to go look it up. I also have one more thing to say. Okay. And this is lyrics from a certain song. Are you gonna sing it?

unknown: 1:16:07

No.

SPEAKER_01: 1:16:07

Okay. Can't I don't know if you can well nobody listens to this, so yeah. This is America. We have the right to say what we want to say, we have the right to do what we want to do, and what I do in my house, you might not do in your house. So what I do in my house is my business. And the simple fact of it all is that we are bonded by the First Amendment. We have the freedom of expression, we have the freedom of choice, and you Chinese, black, green, purple Jew, you have the right to listen to whoever you want to, and even the two live crew. So all you right wingers, left wingers, bigots, communists, there is a place for you in this world because this is the land of the free, the home of the brave, and two live is what we are. Preach word.

SPEAKER_02: 1:16:49

So that was fucking amazing. That's my speech. That was great. That was so great. I didn't know that about Dee Schneider.

SPEAKER_01: 1:16:59

I I did, I knew that. I knew he went testified in Congress and all that.

SPEAKER_02: 1:17:03

I do know that a lot of those like hair band guys from back then and even through like the 80s, 90s, 2000s are extremely intelligent people. Yes. I mean, to be musical in your brain, you need to be pretty smart. So um I'd love to hear the advocacy. People please stop are please keep speaking out. Like it feels like one little voice, and we are at a disadvantage. Um, I was talking to my friend the other night, and everybody gets mad that one side, one political side doesn't, you know, play dirty against the other political side. But part of what I love about the side that I tend to agree with is that they aren't dirty like that, and they aren't going to do all of those horrible things that these other people are doing. But yeah, advocacy is a huge thing. I'm at a time in my life where I'm trying to figure out like what my purpose is now. Like my kids are grown. Um, I have my career set, I have this amazing podcast on my BFF. Um, but what do I want to do? What do I want to, how do I want to affect the world? And and that's what's really important. And D. Snyder, even though maybe it he his band took a hit, his musical career took a hit, but he stood up for something. Um, and that's more valuable than anything, I think.

SPEAKER_01: 1:18:38

Um, you have to support the other side of the coin's right to their free speech, whether you like it or not. Correct. And just like I have always said, I will support the KKK for walking down and having their little parade and saying whatever the fuck they want to say, because this is America, and you have and I can't take your freedom of speech away and keep mine. It goes both ways. And if you don't like what people are saying, change the station. Exactly. You don't have to listen. Exactly. You don't have to listen. Exactly. But you do have to allow these people to do it.

SPEAKER_02: 1:19:14

And you do also have to advocate for the people who get affected by um hatred, yeah, um, ignorance, racism. I mean, those it will, you know, we need to take care of each other, that's all.

SPEAKER_01: 1:19:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:19:34

And yeah, that was a fucking amazing. Like, you just blew my mind. I literally drove down here today, like I just want to take a nap. Like I was saying all day. I wanted to take a nap. Not that I didn't want to count, like, it is never a burden. I'm never like, oh, I gotta drive down there and do the podcast. Like, never, ever, ever. I'm like, oh, it's Tuesday, I get to go record the podcast. So, but I'm tired today. Um, but you were pretty, pretty awesome today. Thank you. Thank you. Must be the whole turning 51. Yeah, it's like shh. Tell anybody. I tell my age all the time, and you're younger than me, so.

SPEAKER_01: 1:20:11

Um, so there we're on the brink of a government shutdown right now.

SPEAKER_02: 1:20:15

Um happening at midnight tonight. I do not think it's not not gonna happen.

SPEAKER_01: 1:20:19

Anyway, um, you will get your mail. Um, as you're hearing this, you probably already know that you will get any mail because technically we are not federal employees, we are also essential employees, and we will have to work.

SPEAKER_02: 1:20:29

I will not be working tomorrow because I am off, but and if you are connected anyway with the Department of Labor, we have also been told this week we will not be losing any we don't lose any funding because we're already in the contract here. So we have what we have. Uh we have a great governor right now, as far as I can tell. Um, he's putting a lot of money and effort and um legislation into effect to support um people being able to work and support themselves. So um I'm gonna keep functioning as normal, but man, if people lose their Medicaid and their food benefits and that I can't even fathom. I know what it is like living paycheck to paycheck and eating Ritzcrackers and peanut butter for dinner, but at least I fucking have Ritzcrackers and peanut butter for dinner. Yep. I mean, some of these people literally have nothing and are dependent on this and this shutdown. And guess the last time we had a shutdown, you know when that was six years ago. You know who was president? So I'm pretty confident, and I'm not confident in the Democratic um leader that he is going to do what he needs to do to make sure this doesn't happen. But I hope by the time this comes out on Friday, this is all resolved. The people who need help are getting the help that they need. And yeah. And two live is what we are. Yeah, go listen to some two live crew, exactly. And one last shout out happy birthday to our Heather. Thank you. Happy birthday to my mommy, and happy birthday to Patty, the baddest ass on the planet. Yeah, I fucking love me some patty.

SPEAKER_01: 1:22:18

My mom is more of a Gen X than a boomer, I think.

SPEAKER_02: 1:22:20

So your mom's just cool as fuck. Like she's just go with the flow. You need me to be hippie, I got you. You need me to be grunge, I got it. You need me to be a mom, a grandma, a second mother, which is what she's been to me my whole life. Um, a boss, uh anything. She's there. She's she's a pretty badass person. Yep. So happy birthday, Patty.

SPEAKER_01: 1:22:46

Okay, thanks for listening. Uh like, share, rate, review. Please. You can find us where you listen to podcasts. You can follow us on all the socials at Leg Whatever Pod. Um, you can send an email to what your favorite two live cruise song is. Likewhateverpod at gmail.com or don't like whatever. Whatever. Bye.

SPEAKER_00: 1:23:16

Oh, me so horny.

SPEAKER_02: 1:23:17

Oh, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00: 1:23:18

Dude, when you said whatever your favorite is like whatever.