Raised By Resistance, Raising The Reckoning

Dinosaurs turning into birds shouldn’t make you think about feminism, but somehow it does when you’re a Gen X woman with a cranky “tiny T-Rex” bird, a Netflix queue, and zero patience for pretending history is settled. We start with real life: birthday week wins, weird weather, and the shows we’re binging. Then we pivot hard into Women’s History Month with a topic we’ve been turning over for a while, because the timeline is both empowering and infuriating.

We walk through second-wave feminism from the 1960s to the 1980s and name the laws and court cases that still shape women’s rights today: the Equal Pay Act, Title VII and the EEOC, Griswold v. Connecticut and contraception, Title IX, Roe v. Wade, and the Equal Credit Opportunity Act. We also talk about what didn’t happen, like the Equal Rights Amendment, and why “it was fun while it lasted” hits so hard when rights can be rolled back. Along the way, we get honest about movement splits, who got centered, and why that matters.

Then we jump into third-wave feminism in the 1990s, led by Gen X, including Anita Hill, Rebecca Walker, intersectionality, and the shift toward a wider, more inclusive view of identity and power. We hit the culture too: riot grrrl energy, reclaiming words, and the ways we raised kids who are louder, freer, and less interested in rigid gender rules. Finally, we say the quiet part out loud: menopause and perimenopause are real, they’re messy, and talking about HRT, hot flashes, and midlife revolt is part of taking our bodies back.

Subscribe, share this with a friend who needs the history and the laughs, and leave a rating and review so more Gen X listeners can find us.

Transcript

Cold Open And Birthday Catch-Up

SPEAKER_05 0:04

Two best friends, we're talking fast, we're missing to our case, we're having a blast. Seeing these dreams, beyond screens, it was all bad or like you know, it's like whatever, together, forever, never never never. Laughing cherry or story forever. We'll take you back like whatever.

SPEAKER_00 0:30

Welcome to Like Whatever, a podcast for, by, and about Gen X. I'm Nicole, and this is my BFFF Heather. Hello. So it was my birthday week. It was your birthday week. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Happy birthday. Thank you. I had a lovely four-day weekend. Nice. I got my tattoo.

SPEAKER_01 0:49

Oh yeah, didn't I? I'm terrible, friend. I saw pictures of it. Oh, it's pretty.

SPEAKER_00 0:54

Yeah, he did good. Um he told me in five weeks to send him a picture and he'll see if it needs touch-ups, which it does. Yeah. But yeah. That's fine. I'm super happy with it. It's very pretty. Yeah, I like it a lot. And then I took my daughter to the beach for a day. That was fun. I have my kids over for dinner for my birthday. Lovely. Yeah. It was a good week.

SPEAKER_01 1:18

It's like 112 degrees right now.

SPEAKER_00 1:20

It is. It's so hot in here. It's funny you're pulling your pant leg up to your knee because I did that like five minutes ago. And I have light pants on. You have on jeans. I have jeans.

SPEAKER_01 1:28

I shouldn't have worn jeans. Yeah. Tomorrow is gonna be a typical Easter coast March day.

SPEAKER_00 1:37

Yes, but preface that with yesterday and today.

SPEAKER_01 1:40

It was 81 degrees today.

SPEAKER_00 1:41

Yeah, and when I was driving down here, my car said it was 86, like halfway down. I was like, no way. So I checked the app and it's at 86 too. I was like, dang.

SPEAKER_01 1:50

And then so tomorrow it's gonna start out at 65 degrees. And it's gonna end at 31 degrees. And we're gonna get snow and a thunderstorm. Yep, yep. We're having it all tomorrow. Yep, yep. It's good times. Of course, I'm off today when it's 81 degrees. And I get to start today at 65 and end it at 31.

SPEAKER_02 2:12

Yeah.

Dinosaurs, Birds, And Netflix Picks

SPEAKER_01 2:13

Good times. I'm gonna have to run tomorrow to beat that nonsense. Ugh. The weather's weird.

SPEAKER_00 2:23

So I started watching Dina the Dinosaurs. It's so good. I watched like an episode and a half.

SPEAKER_01 2:29

So good.

SPEAKER_00 2:30

I was gonna continue with it last night, but I went to Netflix and um it popped up that misery goes off Netflix at the end of the month. And I was like, man, we were just talking about that. And I haven't seen that movie in forever. So I watched that last night. That's a good movie too. It's so good. It is good. Kathy Bates is just amazing. So good. So yeah. And I finished Stranger Things. I have not done that yet. I got wrapped up in the dinosaur. Yeah. I love Stranger Things. Loved it. I love the way they wrapped up the series. I loved it.

SPEAKER_01 3:03

That was it was something I want to talk about with dinosaurs. I I thought of something to tell to talk about, and then I did not send her the text. I'm pretty sure it was about dinosaurs. The dinosaurs.

SPEAKER_00 3:15

That show is just so interesting. It's that dinosaurs for me are like um outer space. Like I can't wrap my head around. Right. That there was a world with dinosaurs and the millions of years that are in between everything. So it kind of blows my mind.

SPEAKER_01 3:32

And that's why I thought it was very well done because they take you through the science. Well, the science of it and the timeline of it where they started as reptiles and then they go to being dinosaurs. And then how they evolved, the dinosaur evolved into and then was wiped out, and then is now birds. Which is funny because that's what it was. I remember what it was. Okay. Always, I've always been we had my mom is t deathly afraid of birds. And my dad came home with a parakeet because my dad's I remember that parakeet for whatever reason. He decided yellow bird was the name. You'll never guess what color it was. But she said, okay, as long as it was in the cage when she was around, no problem. So we would when as soon as she would leave, we would let it out and it would and she would fly around and blah blah blah. Get lost, she'd scream for you. Wasn't a very friendly bird, but she liked the dog and the dog liked her. Anyway, my mom would secretly, she liked the way it sounded, she liked listening to it. She would spray her with the spray bottle when she she liked it as long as it was in the case. Anyway. Yep, yep. So I've always liked birds. And then I got a bird and I was like, yeah, I really do like birds a lot. And then I was thinking about it and I was like, because I love dinosaurs. Yes. You just have a modern-day dinosaur. I do have a modern-day teeny, tiny, and she bit the shit out of me the other day and drew blood because it's that time of year. So she bites like a dinosaur. She does. Um it's when the days start getting longer, they their instincts kick in and they start getting hormonal. And she's molting on top of it. So she is a total T-Rex right now. Baby cranky. Very cranky. I get it. Like I could totally, she is a I like, yeah. Yeah, girl. I got you. Yeah. And I was like, uh, well, I had the dinosaurs on, I made her watch it.

SPEAKER_00 5:42

I was like, look, that's what got her remember who you are. Look similar.

SPEAKER_01 5:47

Never forget where you came from. That was you. Anyway, uh it's on Netflix. Uh if you if you have seen it, if you're into that kind of thing, it is, I mean, the cinematography of it is simply amazing. I get it. It's all AI. I understand that. But I mean, it's impressive. And they all have feathers.

SPEAKER_00 6:08

Uh-huh. I know. I saw that and I was like, all right, she'll be okay. It makes me happy.

SPEAKER_01 6:12

And then there was one. I didn't even know there was one that had in the cold.

SPEAKER_00 6:16

Um maybe you haven't gotten there yet. Yeah, I'm only like an episode and a half in because I watched a whole one and I was tired, but I was like, no, I can do another one.

SPEAKER_01 6:23

I think it's like the third one. Okay. There's only four, I think.

SPEAKER_00 6:27

Yeah, it was four or five, something like that.

SPEAKER_01 6:29

I blew right through them. Yeah. I was like, 'Done before next week.' I was sad because then they were over. Yeah. Um, what else happened this week? I don't think anything.

Hearts Of Glass Sponsor Message

SPEAKER_06 6:41

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Where To Find The Show

Second-Wave Feminism Timeline And Laws

SPEAKER_00 7:35

Okay. All right, so like share rate review. Follow us wherever you listen to your podcasts. Follow us on all the socials. Every single one of them. At Like Whatever Pod. Uh we are on YouTube at Like Whatever. And we have a website. We do. Uh www.likewhateverpod.com. Yes. And we have an email. We do. Likewhateverpod at gmail.com. We sure do. All right, now that we've gotten that out of the way, um, I wanted to do something this week to celebrate Women's History Month. Um and I really worked my brain on this one. It took me a long time to end up where I got, but I'm very happy with it. So let's fuck around and find out about the second and third waves of feminism. Uh my resource this week is britannica.com, one of my waves. So I didn't touch at all on the first wave of feminism, but that was back in the late 1800s, early 1900s, um, fighting for women's suffrage. Yes. Um Susan B. Anthony. Mm-hmm. And the second wave um actually goes from like the 60s to the 80s, but we Gen X women or people in general got to reap some of the benefits of that. Um, and then the third wave is by Gen X people expanding on what the second wave did.

SPEAKER_01 9:11

So we're gonna start with this bill to all be taken away. All taken away.

SPEAKER_00 9:16

I know when I was reading some of it, I was like, it was fun while it lasted. That new bill.

SPEAKER_01 9:24

We won't be able to vote. Yeah. I know. Oh hold on, Phil. Does that cover like what if you have the the dri the certified driver's or the driver's license with the star on it? Does that count? The federal one? I don't know. Is that what that means? I don't know. Don't like you had to get this driver.

SPEAKER_00 9:47

Yeah. Yeah, that's the federal one, which I haven't gotten yet. I just use my passport anytime I fly.

SPEAKER_01 9:52

I thought it was just you dressed your license and it had a star on it. Well, mine does. I got that a long time ago. I didn't I didn't go do it yet.

SPEAKER_00 9:58

Like I got my last license right before that went in. Well, I had to change my name. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Okay. Yep. Yep. All right. The second wave of feminism began in the 1960s, a time of momentous social change in the United States, spurred by the civil rights movement and Vietnam War protests. Although the fight for women's rights had become dormant following the ratification of the 19th Amendment in 1920, which granted women suffrage, by the mid-20th century, a new generation of feminist writers had set the tone for a renewed activism. French writer and philosopher Simone de Bouvaux. Did I get it right? Sure. You speak French. Um provided wait a minute. Oh, the Foundation for the Modern Era of Feminist Thinking in 1949 with the publication of her book.

SPEAKER_01 10:55

It's written in a long time.

SPEAKER_00 11:00

Okay, the second sex. Uh, which explores definitions of womanhood and argues against society's treatment of women as secondary to men. Oh, how times have not changed. Um, building on Bouvoir's work, American author Betty Friedman, Freedom, no, Frieden.

SPEAKER_01 11:21

It does look like freedom.

SPEAKER_00 11:23

It does. It's very tiny. Became the primary catalyst of second-wave feminism with her book, The Feminine Mystique, in 1963. Uh, Frieden collected oral histories and conducted interviews with white college-educated middle-class women who were dissatisfied with their role as housewives. Uh, her book identified a pervasive system of oppression and discrimination against women and challenged assumptions about women's roles in society as mothers and homemakers. The book immediately became a bestseller and galvanized women across the United States, albeit mostly middle-class white women, into feminist organization. Um the start of the second wave of feminism coincided with the passage of numerous pieces of anti-discrimination legislation in the early 1960s that were the fruits of organizing and lobbying by labor and civil rights activists. The Equal Pay Act of 1963 outlawed employers from paying women less than men for equal work at the same job. And it's fucking hilarious. That was 1963. That's a lie, because women still get paid less than men. Yes. And it's a law, but you know, whatever. What the fuck are laws? Yeah. Um, an amendment to title seven of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 prohibited employers from discriminating on the basis of sex. Title VII also established the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission in 1965, which provided women access to additional labor opportunities and jobs across all areas of the economy. Also, in 1965, the Supreme Court ruled in favor of the constitutional right of married couples to use contraception in the case of Griswold versus State of Connecticut, and that blows my mind, like outer space, that prior to 1965 you were not allowed to use conception. Crazy. I mean, not that anybody was there to see what you're doing, but um the ruling was a landmark piece of legislation that paved the way for women's reproductive rights.

SPEAKER_01 13:30

Which we no longer have.

unknown 13:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:32

That's why I said fun while it lasted.

SPEAKER_01 13:34

Well, that was also what I wanted to because and now I remember what it was. Okay. Um, really what I remember what it was. Okay. Um so you know how for a while it was, well women shouldn't use abortion as contraceptives, blah blah blah. And if you don't want to have a baby, don't open your legs. And so apparently there is now a baby shortage. Yeah. It's a population decline because women said, Bet.

SPEAKER_00 14:05

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 14:06

And because women don't want to have to have a baby. You don't have to have a baby to make your life.

SPEAKER_00 14:10

And we need a population decline. Yeah. We need a bunch of crazy ants running around. We're awesome. Um, however, these measures were seen by some feminists as lacking in a world where women faced widespread discrimination. Leaders of the women's movement, including U.S. Representative Bella Abzug, U.S. Representative Shirley Chisholm, civil rights activist Fannie Lou Famer or Hamer, Native American activist Ladonna Harris, and writer and journalist Gloria Steinem, formed groups to organize for women's rights and raise awareness of the necessity of women's liberation. The National Organization of Women formed in 1966 to achieve and protect equal rights for women. NOW's founding was partly ignited by the EEOC's initial decision that sex-based discrimination in job advertisements was lawful under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act. The EEOC later reversed this decision, and in 1973, the Supreme Court ruled that sex-segregated job advertising was unconstitutional. The National Women's Political Caucus formed in 1971 to recruit and support women seeking public office and to amplify the voices of women in government. Like NOW, the NWPC was formed partly in response to failed legislative efforts, in this case, Congress's failure to pass the Equal Rights Amendment in 1970, which was the first year that proposed bill made it past the committee stage. Second way feminists organized efforts resulting in many political and social societal changes. Chisholm, on NWPC co-founder, ran for the Democratic nomination for U.S. president in 1972, making her the first African American candidate on a major party's presidential ticket. Chisholm wanted to bring the rights of women and black Americans front and center in national politics. During her campaign, she was blocked from participating in televised debates, which again blows my mind. Blows my mind. After filing a complaint with the Federal Communications Commission, she was allowed equal time as for the male Democratic candidates in the California primary debate debate. She won 152 delegates before withdrawing from the nomination race. Her candidacy is credited with inspiring numerous women and people from other underrepresented groups such as blacks, Latinos, Asian Americans, to run for public office. In 1972, the signing into law of Title IX of the Federal Education Amendments made discrimination based on sex illegal in education programs and activities receiving federal funding. In 2002, Title IX was renamed the Patsy Takamoto Mink Equal Opportunity and Education Act in honor of its co-author, U.S. Representative Patsy Takamoto Mink, who died that year. Other legislative victories included the Supreme Court's ruling on Roe versus Wade. I miss you, Roe versus Wade, in 1973, and the passage of the Equal Credit Opportunity Act in 1974, which was sponsored in Congress by Abzog and prohibited lenders and creditors from denying women mortgages or credit cards in their own name because of their sex or marital status.

SPEAKER_01 17:50

Our mothers until the year I was born could not have their own accounts or credit cards without a mail signature. In my lifetime.

SPEAKER_00 18:06

And um it wasn't just that your husband, if you didn't have a husband, your dad had to do it. Or your brother.

SPEAKER_01 18:14

I wonder who did moms. I'll have to ask her. She would be like, nobody would mom.

unknown 18:20

Come on.

SPEAKER_00 18:22

Uh second wave feminists also pushed for changes in the law and social attitudes towards rape and domestic violence. In 1972, the first emergency hotline for rape victims opened in Washington, D.C. By the mid-1970s, the first domestic violence hotlines and shelters had been established, and a small number of states began passing laws that recognized marital rape as a crime.

SPEAKER_01 18:44

Again. In our lifetime. Yeah. Not in the 1800s. Not yep.

SPEAKER_00 18:54

Yep. Yep. In 1978, Title 12 of the Civil Rights Act was amended to include the Pregnancy Discrimination Act, which prohibits workplace discrimination on the basis of pregnancy, childbirth, or related medical conditions. That's another one that's not necessarily It's not. No. No. Okay. Um not necessarily not at all.

SPEAKER_01 19:22

Yeah, yeah. Because especially if you're in a right-to-work state where they can just fire you for whatever reason. Which Delaware is. You'd have to prove that it was because you were pregnant, and how are you going to do that? Exactly. If they specifically said, Don't come in anymore, don't bring your pregnant ass into work.

SPEAKER_00 19:39

And you got it on video. Unless you get all that, you're you're screwed. SOL. Yep. Not all second wave feminist legislative efforts ended in success, in particular, the effort to add the ERA to the U.S. Constitution, which would guarantee that equality of rights under the law shall not be denied or abridged by the United States on account of one's sex. First introduced in night in Congress in 1923, the ERA finally passed both houses of Congress in 1972. However, the amendment failed to be ratified by the required threshold of 38 states before the extended deadline of June 30th, 1982. 82. 82. We were alive, folks.

SPEAKER_01 20:22

We remember in 82. Not even just we were alive.

SPEAKER_00 20:26

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 20:27

We lived it. Yeah. Um we were riding big wheels.

SPEAKER_00 20:33

Without a care in the world. Yeah. It's no wonder our mothers didn't care about us at this point. They're like, fuck it. They were too busy. Yeah. Fighting for their own rights to party. Well, the first wave of feminism focused on women's legal rights. The second wave featured a theoretical facet not present in the preceding wave in which the nature of womanhood and equality themselves were confronted. Books by feminist authors and public debates and discussions challenge traditional thoughts about a woman's role in society. Seminal texts of a second wave era include Australian author Jermaine Grears, the female eunuch. Um here. That's why I was just like Shulamith Firestones, The Dialectic of Sex, The Case for Feminist Revolution, and Kate Kate Millet's uh Sexual Politics, all of which were bestsellers upon their publication in 1970. At New York City's Town Hall in 1971, Greer joined New York NOW president Jacqueline Cabalos? Cabalos, uh, lesbian activist and writer Jill Johnston and cultural and literary critic Diana Trilling in a notorious debate. On women's liberation with author Norman Mailer, whose books were criticized by feminists for their indulgence in male chauvinism.

unknown 22:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:10

Women's study departments um began to form at universities, beginning with San Diego State.

SPEAKER_01 22:18

Here's what I find weird. And I'm gonna use my own self because I don't know anybody else. Okay. Um, and how y'all were raised. Right. Like I've said a million times, my father wanted boys. He's made that well known, and he got girls. I'm pretty sure that my father grew up in an extremely chauvinistic.

SPEAKER_00 22:40

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:42

His dad was a was in the Navy. He avoided Vietnam by going into the Navy reserves. Um his dad was a pipe fitter. There was no girls anywhere. They didn't have cut. I don't think they had a whole lot of girls. Well they had maybe a c I don't anyway. He came from a very chauvinistic family. And it's not like my mom helped at all because my mom was a daddy's girl and she got whatever she wanted. And I mean she worked, and but you know. Right. Anyway, day one. My father is the least chauvinistic human being on earth. Yeah. Like he wears my mom slippers around the house. Like, if you just saw my dad randomly, you'd probably think he's gay. He wears pink, he just doesn't give two fucks about what anybody thinks of him for any reason. He used to play in golf tournaments with lesbians in the 80s. They lived down the street from us. It was Carol and Carol. We employ they in a male-dominated field of cooks in restaurants. We had more female cooks than I believe any I mean, the majority of our staff was, especially when my sister and I got older. But we were taught very young that there is nothing that you cannot do. Because my sister would try and pull that shit all the time. Like, oh, it's too heavy, Dad. I can't, and he'd be like, No, no, no, no. You can do it. Anything a boy can do, you can do better. And it was, you know, her favorite would be like, she doesn't belong at the DMV, that's the boy's job. So he would make her ass go specifically to the DMV. You know, we couldn't drive a car without learning to change the oil and change a tire because I don't want you out there and having mostly I think it was because you know, it was the 80s and 90s and people got kidnapped all the time and he didn't want us out on the s I mean, we're here. It's not like this is high crime area. Right. Um apparently it was the other day. Um but you know, we had to he so it was always weird to me that even though he and I think he maybe just lied that he just always wanted boys.

SPEAKER_03 25:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:25

Maybe he did want girls because he hates boys. I don't know, but Yeah, maybe he just never, it was never you did not think that there was anything you couldn't do because you were a girl. Like I never has ever been a thought in my head that like, well, that's not something girls do. I played with they bought me trucks, and it's not even like they were I was a tomboy. I had trucks and they didn't let me have the baby gun, but that's because I was shot my sister. Those exact words.

SPEAKER_00 25:53

You would have shot yourself. I would have shot my sister and or she would have taken it from me and shot me.

SPEAKER_01 25:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:59

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 26:00

Um so it's always been crazy to me that he was like that. Yeah. He was the exception. I mean, really. He's this exact opposite of the times. And he will never tell you who he votes for. And I I think as much as he hated Hillary, because I feel like he hates Hillary, although he's never really, ever really speaks about politics at all. And I don't know if that's because he votes an opposite way of me, and so he doesn't want to, but he usually loves arguing with me, so I don't think that's it. But I can't imagine he would have voted for Trump.

SPEAKER_00 26:38

Yeah, I would say that He might have just not voted. He does well, I think he voted, and I think he has feelings, but I could also your dad's also not the type to sit around and talk politics. So maybe he just keeps his mouth shut so that he doesn't have to talk to anybody about it.

SPEAKER_01 26:54

As anti-chauvinist and as not, I just can't imagine that my father would be able to pull a lever for someone like that. That is so I just even if he thinks everything, maybe he just didn't vote on the president. I could see him doing that. I just cannot see him voting for Donald Trump simply because of his chauvinism. Yeah. And well, the way he talks about his daughter, I can't, I just can't imagine my father like, I just can't. Anyway, that's if you need to know more about my dad, he's he is the least chauvinistic human being ever on earth. He really is. Sorry, tangent.

SPEAKER_00 27:40

Okay, that's all right. Anytime you want to give demand some praise.

SPEAKER_01 27:44

And and every time we would because it is a male-dominated world, and the you know, the Cisco delivery guys would show up and they'd be like, uh you have somebody here that's gonna help you? Or do you have somebody else here to help? And I'm like, why you need help? Let's roll. Come on. Shit ain't gonna put itself away. And I just he just, I'm telling you, and and anytime that you would even try, like we talked about last week. No, no boys allowed. And to this day, when my nephew was born, I mean, he loves my nephew, but you can tell he loves my niece way a lot more. She's much more up his alley. Yep. They wrestle and he throws her around and she attacks him, and uh he she my sister did have to yell at her because she's like, he's getting too old for that.

SPEAKER_00 28:37

You gotta stop. Maybe that's why his back's always messed up. It is no joke. Because an 18-year-old little mountain of muscle is just tossing.

SPEAKER_01 28:44

I'm telling you, she will come in the door and just like attack stance at him and just run full speed at him and just take him down. And he loved it. And didn't ever mess my my nephew, would hold his hand and lead him out to his car his motorcycle and say, You go ride your motorcycle. He had to stay there with my mom because she had the money. But it's just always strange to me that he came from that.

Second-Wave Ideologies And Blind Spots

SPEAKER_00 29:16

Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's awesome. All right, back to our story. Sorry. No, no, no, no. He deserved it. He's a good guy. Yeah. However, there was no single coherent feminist ideology, and three major schools of feminist thought emerged to encompass various stances. The first was liberal feminism, um, also called mainstream feminism, which focused on pragmatic changes at the constitutional and governmental levels. Liberal feminism called for integrating women into the established power structure and giving women equal access to the roles and opportunities that were traditionally dominated by men. By contrast, radical feminism, the second group, sought to change or subvert the institutions themselves, which were seen as inherently patriarchal, hierarchical, and authoritarian. Um, cultural feminism, the third group, embraced the differences between the sexes and advocated celebrating qualities associated with women, such as nurturing and caring for others. For this reason, cultural feminism is sometimes called difference feminism. Further splits within uh second wave feminism sprang from the wide diversity of experiences between feminists, which was often not acknowledged by the overarching women's movement. White, educated, middle class women built the second wave around their experiences, leading to significant gaps and issues being addressed for feminists of other ethnicities and classes who experienced discrimination in additional forms. Black feminists in particular faced challenges from oppression caused by white women who mistakenly believed unity through a common gender transcended all other experiences. Black feminists created their own organization, including the National Black Feminist Organization in 1973 and the Kambahee River Collection in 1974. Black feminist writers who addressed the disparities in oppression and experience among the second wave included Frances M. Beale in her essay Double Jeopardy to Be Black and Female in 1969, and Belle Hooks in her book Ain't I a Woman? Black Women and Feminism in 1981. Poet and essayist Audrey Lorde and novelist Alice Walker were influential voices in Black feminism who included lesbian themes in their work. Organized second wave efforts slowed as the women's movement entered the 1980s. The many legislative successes in the previous two decades gave way to attitudes by some women that the movement's goals had been achieved. Further progress was complicated by disagreement over issues such as women's sexual freedom, in particular, a rift between anti-pornography feminists and those who advocated for a more sex-positive feminism and women's roles in the armed forces. By the 1990s, many of these issues were being taken up by a new generation of women, the third wave of feminists. That's us. Us.

SPEAKER_01 32:28

We should probably go back in time and do your thing.

1984 Diary Easter Weekend Recap

SPEAKER_04 32:32

Yep. Because I recuer to like while I can feel her teenage life.

SPEAKER_00 32:52

Last week was Wednesday. Wednesday. April 18th. Today is Sunday, April 22nd. Oh no. We've skipped. Well, I have an excuse. Oh, I better be a good one. I forgot to write in my diary over the weekend. So here is what I did over the weekend. Oh, good. It's a full recap. It is. Thursday the 19th, 1984. Today was my last day at home. Then I went to Daddy and Janet's in Felton. Um that's why we didn't write. Probably action-packed, Pee-wee. Exactly. I actually enjoyed doing things when I was over there. Um, I was playing in the yard when Daddy got home and he played soccer with us, which I can't even imagine my dad doing. I'm gonna have to tell him that. Um then after daddy got here and we went to his house on Friday, my sister and me were at daddy's, and daddy took my sister and me to the store. Whew. That was a very complicated sentence. I must have been half asleep. Um oh this is a sad one. Oh no. Yeah. The puppies Cleo had were doing so. I knew it was gonna be about the puppies. The puppies Cleo had were doing so-so. Three had died, and by the time we got to Aunt Dots to pick them up, one more had died. All but one was okay. Um he was sick and he died somehow.

SPEAKER_01 34:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:41

Um, now we have three. Saturday we decorated Easter eggs. Yeah. Oh, I can still smell it. Yeah, that writ that writ die, huh? And we had an Easter egg hunt. Uh tonight we had to come back home. Uh Sunday was Easter. Oh, that's why I had to go home earlier. Oh, yeah. We got candy. We got a lot from Daddy and Janet. I called Daddy and Daphne. Daphne's back. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. She's just popping them back here and there. Um my sister wanted to call Miss Greenley to tell her happy Easter. Riveting. Yeah. Um, today was my last day at home from vacation, back to school tomorrow. Yuck! Yuck all caps and exclamation points. Yuck. Yep, yep. So there's a recap of my weekend. Excellent. Oh, Easter was so much fun as a kid. Yeah. Did you you didn't enjoy Easter? You like candy at work. Even as a little kid. Did you get Easter bunnies or Easter baskets?

SPEAKER_01 36:02

Have you met my father?

SPEAKER_00 36:03

Of course we got Easter baskets. So he could eat all your candy. Everything. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 36:06

Yeah. True. The baskets were out of control. They still are. We still get Easter baskets. She swears it's it's she he says it's her, but meanwhile it's because it's no junk candy either. It is all name brand.

SPEAKER_00 36:22

Well, my kids are still in their 20s, but I still have to make Easter baskets because my oldest daughter makes me make them for her. But they're not as quite as big as they were back then.

SPEAKER_01 36:32

We tried in like the when we were like older teenagers and 20s, I was like, that's maybe cut down on I can buy my own candy at the like mom. The day after Easter. Yeah, it's so much cheaper. Like, let's well up on the candy. And she was agreeing. And then nope. They'd be like, and she when I was a kid, there were specifically three Easter baskets. One for my sister, one for me. And mine always had white chocolate. My sister's always had um I always got white chocolate too. Had the Cadbury eggs. I don't like the Cadbury eggs. And I would get extra peanut butter cups and she would get the Cadbury eggs, and then I would have white chocolate. She doesn't like white chocolate. And then my dad had a bigger basket. Easter bunny liked it more. Way more. With extra candy in it so that he'd keep out of horrors.

SPEAKER_00 37:22

I mean, white chocolate was so good back then. White chocolate. I know, but back then I can still taste like it was a yellowy color and it was real buttery and creamy tasty. And like it was way better than it. I mean, I still love it today, but I don't even know what it's made out of. White chocolate.

SPEAKER_01 37:39

White cows. I don't even I have no idea what white chocolate is. Yeah. It's gotta be some kind of cream-based. I'm gonna look it up. Mm-hmm. Yeah, lots of sugar. It's gotta be like some kind of cream and sugar is white.

SPEAKER_00 37:57

But we, when I was a kid, I've mentioned this before. We went to church like 45 minutes away from our house, and there was a sunrise service on Easter morning. So we had to get up before the crack of dawn to get ready and go to church. And then we went to church, and then I would always get my hair pulled by my mom because I would fall asleep because I was tired. And when I'd fall asleep, my head would drop, and she'd grab my hair and yank it and snatch my head.

SPEAKER_01 38:21

Um that's a mom thing.

SPEAKER_00 38:24

And then afterward, after church, we would go back to my friend's house, just people in the church, and they had a great property with like a pond and a tree house and all that, and they would hide Easter eggs for us and we'd have breakfast, and so that part was fun.

SPEAKER_01 38:42

But we would go before we got my sister, and before we had jobs uh when we were living in vans, um my grandfather worked at the big oil company out there, and they would have an Easter egg hunt every year. And then I distinctly remember that the grand prize was a giant bunny like the size of you. I know those hollow bunnies that I know. And I never want it. I always want a bag of jelly beans. I don't care for jelly beans.

SPEAKER_00 39:16

I like jelly bellies.

SPEAKER_01 39:18

I like orange jelly beans only.

SPEAKER_00 39:21

I love jelly bellies, but they're I will go through the bag before I eat them and pick out all the watermelon, the peach, the pear. Oh, there are some nasty ones in there, and they taste so bad.

SPEAKER_01 39:34

If I could just have like a bag of only orange jelly beans, I'd be okay, but the rest of them are just gross.

SPEAKER_00 39:40

I don't dislike jelly beans, but it jelly bellies are definitely the only ones I really eat.

SPEAKER_01 39:45

White chocolate is made out of a little bit of um chocolate powder and mostly milk salads. I don't know what that is, but I still don't know what it's made out of. I don't either, but it's got a little bit of chocolate in it.

SPEAKER_00 40:01

All right, let's move on now to our generation, the third wave of feminism.

SPEAKER_01 40:07

Here we go.

SPEAKER_00 40:08

Here we go. Let's do it. Uh, the third wave of uh feminism emerged in the 1990s and was led by members of Generation X, the generation of Americans born between 1960s and 1970s who came of age in a media saturated and culturally and economically diverse milieu. That's correct. Although third wave feminists benefited significantly from the legal rights and protections that had been obtained by first and second wave feminists, they also critiqued some of the positions of second wave feminists and what they felt was the unfinished work of the previous generations. The third wave was made possible by the greater economic and professional power and status achieved by the women of the second wave, the massive expansion in opportunities for the dissemination of ideas created by the information revolution of the late 20th century and the coming of age of Gen X scholars and activists. Some early adherents of the new approach were literally daughters of the second wave. In 1992, Rebecca Walker, the daughter of the novelist and second waiver Alice Walker, published an article in Miss Magazine that examined the impact of the confirmation of Clarence Thomas to the U.S. Supreme Court in 1991. Well you remember that. The pubic hair on the uh Coke bottle. Um Thomas has narrowly confirmed even after testimony to the Senate Judiciary Committee by Anita Hill, an attorney who had formerly worked for Thomas, credibly accusing him of sexual assault. Uh Walker's article Becoming the Third Wave described her feelings of rage about the repitiation of Hill's testimony, and she closed her article by calling for a new wave of feminist action. That same year, Walker and Shannon Lisrearden founded Third Wave Direct Action Corporation. In 1997, the group became Third Wave Foundation and was restructured in 2013 as the Third Wave Fund. It's dedicated to supporting groups and individuals working towards gender, racial, economic, and social justice. Jennifer Baumgartner and Amy Richards, authors of Manifesta, Young Women, Feminism and the Future in 2000, were both born in 1970 and raised by second waivers who had belonged to organized feminist groups, questioned the sex-based division of labor in their households, and raised their daughters to be self-aware, empowered, articulate, high-achieving women. Much like your father.

SPEAKER_01 42:51

And did all the iron waivers my mom will not iron anything ever for any reason. She's like, I don't even know how to do it and I don't want to do it. And my father will iron he busts out. My father um did the laundry. Yeah, he's very specific about it. Yeah. Um, I think he has a touch of the tism too. I think that's where I got it from. Um, yeah, my father, yeah. They split the house.

SPEAKER_00 43:16

There was not no, no, definitely no gender roles for sure.

SPEAKER_01 43:21

Not my house. Nope.

SPEAKER_00 43:22

Uh these women and others like them grew up with the expectation of achievement and examples of female success as well as an awareness of the barriers presented by sexism, racism, and classism. They chose to battle such obstacles by inverting sexist, racist, and classist symbols, fighting patriarchy with irony, answering violence with stories of survival, and combating continued exclusion with grassroots activism and radical democracy. Rather than becoming part of the machine, third weavers began both sabotaging and rebuilding the machine itself. Go gen X. Um At the same time, third wave activism occurred alongside mainstream political activism that saw some significant gains won by feminists of earlier generations. Spurred by Hill's testimony in 1991 and by the treatment she received from male Democrats on the Senate Judiciary Committee, an unprecedented number of Democratic women ran for Congress, which led to the election of 28 new Congresswomen. Yeah. Four to the Senate and 24 to the House of Representatives in 1992, consequently dubbed the year of the woman. In 1992, election winners included Carol Mosley Braun, the first African American woman elected to Senate.

SPEAKER_01 44:42

That was the first year we could vote. Yeah, that was. Some of you got to vote before, but specifically we.

SPEAKER_00 44:54

All right. Influenced by the postmodernist movement of academia, third wave feminists sought to question, reclaim, and redefine the ideas, words, and media that transmit ideas about womanhood, gender, beauty, sexuality, femininity, and masculinity, among other things. There was a decided shift in perceptions of gender with the notion that there are some characteristics that are strictly male and others that are strictly female, giving way to the concept of gender continuum. From this perspective, each person is seen as possessing, expressing, and suppressing the full range of traits that have previously been associated with one gender or the other. For third wave feminists, therefore, sexual liberation, a major goal of second wave feminists was expanded to mean a process of first becoming conscious of the ways one gender identity and sexuality have been shaped by society, and then intentionally structuring and becoming free to express one's authentic gender identity. Indeed, the third wave particularly celebrated the diversity of women's experiences and acknowledged that there is no universal definition or account of womanhood. You know, are you sure your dad wasn't a part of this group? I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_01 46:12

He doesn't he read, so it's not like he doesn't read. I don't know. I don't know. He didn't, but I mean I wore combat boots and they bought me a leather jacket. And I know that he came from a misogynistic, closed-minded because my grandmother once said that if I wanted to be a boy, she'd pay for it, which is surprisingly open-minded, but I don't think she meant it. Yeah, she was being shy. She did it in the middle of a group of other people. Yeah. Um, but no, I and it's funny too, because I was thinking about it with the whole gothic stuff aesthetic. He would make fun of me, but it would be more like he would pretend to be Robert Smith and he would say, because every time I would have a video on, I guess they're used to their music, right? So it's very energetic and they're moving around on the stage and you know, the Rolling Stones, blah blah blah. Right. And he's watching Robert Smith just stand in one spot, and he would he would sing the cure songs, he would lay on the floor in the kitchen. So it was never like a like he made fun of me that way. Like it was like, your music is so sad, like why is your music so bad? And like make fun of it that way. But never once did he ever make fun of like the black lipstick or the no the clothes that I wore, or no, never called me a weirdo. No, it was all just playful. I dyed my hair. The only reason my mom was mad about it is because she didn't want her bathroom messed up and she didn't like pink. She didn't like the pink. It's the one time your mom has been mad at me. Yeah, she was unhappy with the call. She didn't know nothing about all the piercings I got and tattoos. When I got the tattoos, my dad said, I hope your your leg falls off. And he has he does not have any tattoos. My mom has several, but the only he only says, I hope they get infected. That's it. Like it's never he doesn't like them, but uh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:16

Your dad has a very sarcastic sense of humor. That's why I find him so funny. My dad's a much like that too. Yeah. Sarcastic and funny.

SPEAKER_01 48:23

It's so weird. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 48:25

But it's always playful and laughing, like you never feel offended. No. Or like you're being attacked.

SPEAKER_01 48:29

Because I don't think he didn't in even if he like accidentally does, I don't think he means it that way. Right. So you would never take it that way. So I don't know. It's just it's always been weird to me because my sister's husband, when my nephew was like two or three, my sister was gonna he wanted a kitchen, like a little kitchen. And my sister was getting one. Your whole family cooks. Of course he's gonna be. What's wrong with him? And my brother-in-law, trust me, he does his there's no gender roles in that house either.

Reclaiming Words And Raising Rebels

SPEAKER_00 49:16

Oh no. She would lay the smack down on that. I was gonna say, if anything, girls run that world. Yes, yes, they do. No joke. All right. Of the texts that were highly influential to the third wave, one of the earliest was Kimberly Crenshaw's 1989 article, Demarginalizing the Intersection of Race and Sex, a Black Feminist Critique of Anti-Discrimination Doctrine, Feminist Theory, and Patriot anti-racist politics. Shoo. That's a lot. I've read books longer than that title. Oh, great. That's not true. I don't read. I know she doesn't. But anyway, um, I've read Facebook posts longer than that. Um, Crenshaw's article introduced the term intersectional intersectionality to convey how various aspects of individual identity, including race, gender, class, and sexuality, interact to create distinct experiences of privilege or oppression. In particular, gender-based oppression can interplay with other forms of systemic oppression, such as sexism, racism, and homophobia, and create a multiplicity of gendered experiences. Also influential were Judith Butler's Gender Trouble, Feminism and the Subversion of Identity, and Patricia Hill Collins' Black Feminist Thought, Knowledge, Consciousness, and the Politics of Empowerment, both published in 1990. That same year, Naomi Wolfe published her first book, The Bestselling The Beauty Myth: How Images of Beauty Are Used Against Women. And I've actually heard of that one. I'm not a reader, but or so I don't know authors and I don't know books, but I know that one. In 1991, Susan Faludi published Backlash, The Undeclared War Against American Women, also a significant bestseller. I love that title. The Undeclared War Against American Women. Yep. Uh Third Waivers inherited a foothold of institutional power created by second waivers, including women's studies programs at universities, long-standing feminist organizations, and well-established publishing outlets such as MIS and several academic journals. These outlets became a less important part of the culture of the third wave than they had been in the second wave. It's not just me. We don't have time for that. We're too busy trying to run the world. Um, in expressing their concerns, third wave feminists actively subverted, co-opted, and played on seemingly sexist images and symbols. This was evident in the double entendre and irony of the language commonly adopted by people in their self-presentations. Slang terms for adult women used derogatorily in most earlier contexts, including the term girl, became proud and defiant labels. The spirit and intent of the third wave shown through the raw honesty, humor, and horror of the vagina monologues, a 1996 play and later a book by V, formerly formerly Eve Ansler, that explored women's feelings about sexuality and topics as diverse as orgasm, childbirth, and rape. The third wave spirit also came through in the righteous anger of punk rock's riot girl movement, which gave rise to bands and artists such as Slater Kinney and Bikini Kill, and in the playfulness, seriousness, and subversion of the Gorilla Girls, a group of women artists who donned gorilla masks in an effort to expose female stereotypes and fight discrimination against female artists. Do you listen to any of those bands?

SPEAKER_01 53:14

Um, not really.

SPEAKER_00 53:16

Okay. Um, something made me oh yeah. Reclaiming like the words made me think, because they said like the term girl. I've always hated personally being called a bitch, and I know it's a playful word that women use for each other. There was a person in particular that used to do it all the time. Uh, and it drove me crazy. I just think it's I think it's a word that should be safe for someone who actually is a bitch, and I don't think it's a good nickname. But reading that, I'm like, that kind of puts it into perspective. Yeah. Like we're reclaiming the word girls can call each other bitch. But I still not a big fan.

SPEAKER_01 53:57

Well, and I think that's a little I think that is more of the younger the younger girls do that. I think that's a little bit younger than us. Yeah. I I think it's funny because um the Gen X women well let's Gen X people, us we aren't, I mean, we I don't I think I I've seen it before in a few things. It's not like we're openly and I think we get accused of it a lot, that we're not openly trying to change things and we're not burning things to the ground. I I disagree with that though, because I believe that the women we are raising, yes, which are far more of us, of them than there are of us, and looking at who they are now and where we are now, and I don't mean just with feminism, and I mean with you know is it great? No, is it everyone equal? No, but the fact that we know transgender people, that we know that you can be openly gay on TV, are we a hundred percent there? No, but you it's not in the closet anymore, yes, and I feel like we did that, not and it wasn't like openly, but who we are raising or who you are raising, because I'm not, but these women that we are raising, these people that we are raising are better and will burn things to the ground.

SPEAKER_00 55:38

It's funny that I was just thinking on the ride down here because since doing this script, I've been like last night I sat and um created a 14-hour strong ass women playlist on Spotify. Literally went through all of my like songs. I don't even know how many there are, but I knew if I stopped, I wouldn't know where I stopped or what songs I put on, so I just had to plow through. But um anyway, I was listening to that on the way down here, and I I'm a big Chapel Rowan fan. I know you don't like pop music.

SPEAKER_01 56:12

Um but like the one song.

SPEAKER_00 56:14

Yeah, she has I love her music, but I also love her and I fucking love her parents. Have you ever heard her dad? Um I I saw an interview with her dad once, and he was actually crying because of how much she opened his eyes to being open-minded, accepting everybody, loving everybody, and it just breaks him down to even think about how she is. But I was listening to the song on the way down, and she's singing about her girlfriend and her girlfriend's ex-girlfriend, and I just saw her in a dress she wore the other night, and it was completely sheer, like black sheer, you could see everything. And I'm like, yes, like that's who we are raising.

SPEAKER_01 56:57

Exactly. Yes, exactly. That you know, we're you look at the girl. I think we're a slight bit different than I think maybe, although I don't know, um, the majority of our generation because of where we are geographically located. Yeah, um I could see that we have an enormously large gay population here. Yes. Um, always have. Um, and it's always been very open. Specifically Rehoveth Beach. Um they have a it's they have signs up everywhere, gay friendly. They've always had drag shows, they've always had gay clubs, and you knew it. It's not like it was a secret. So I think we might and and I imagine people who live in like big city in New York New York where it was acceptable and stuff like that, but I just feel like we allowed it because it wasn't because we were all different.

SPEAKER_02 58:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:02

We were just trying to find who we were. Who we were, and I think because we were left alone.

SPEAKER_02 58:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:09

We were just left alone to figure it out on your own. So you had to find people like I can't sew, but that guy over there might. And you know, if he does, then we should be friends because I want you to sew me this. And yeah.

SPEAKER_06 58:23

If you grew up in the 80s, you remember the music, the malls, the mixtapes. But some of us also remember something else feeling alone, feeling unseen, trying to survive things. No one should have to survive. My Hearts of Glass book series by Pat Green isn't just a love story set under neon lights. It's about survivors trying to find each other. It's about found family. It's about the kind of love that doesn't fix the past, but helps you build a future. If you've ever needed a reminder that you are not broken, that healing is possible, that love can be safe, come visit the world of Hearts of Glass Living in the Real World, and its sequel, Hearts of Glass Fade Away and Radiate. Find the books, paperback, ebook, or audiobook on PatGreenauthor.com. Because your story did not end in the eighties. It's still being written.

SPEAKER_01 59:18

And I think a lot of it So then we've You never saw really, and I don't know if it's just because it wasn't an open thing or what, but you never really saw our mothers have a gay best friend.

SPEAKER_00 59:33

No.

SPEAKER_01 59:33

Like you do now. Will and grace.

SPEAKER_00 59:35

Right.

SPEAKER_01 59:35

Or, you know, something like that. And and because men weren't out. No.

SPEAKER_00 59:39

They probably did have gay best friends. They were married. They just didn't know. Or they were married to them. Right, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 59:44

Um so you know, like uh sex in the city is is a perfect example. Like you never saw that with, and I get it, they're boomers, but you had never seen that before. And so that's what we so we were more okay with it. So the the people that we raise are less gender conforming.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:09

Right, because it's not even a thing. Like coming up, it was like, oh, is he gay? Like, yeah, oh my god, and now it's just like we don't even talk about it because it's irrelevant. So I remember being young, I had a lot of guy friends in school because guys are so much easier to be friends than girls.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:30

They just punch each other and they're dumb with it.

unknown 1:00:32

Yes.

Gen X Bluntness And Social Shifts

SPEAKER_00 1:00:34

And um, I had a couple friends growing up. I knew that they were gay. Um, and they are, you know, when they finally came out, they didn't in school because back then it was still pretty closeted. But I remember my first adult gay man friend, and I will never forget him. My it was at my first job. I was 15. I worked in a um a Kmart type sport um and with the snack bar in the front where you could get the yummy roasted cashews and the ice cream and the nachos and all the good stuff. I love that job. And he would come every night and just lounge himself long lanky self out on my counter because he wanted chocolate ice cream, and that's how he would ask for it. And I loved him, and I don't even know at that point if I really knew he was gay, like he was just fun and exciting and different than anybody I'd ever known, and so confident. I mean, he was still probably 20. It's not like he was old, but I was 15, so 20 seems old. Yeah, but yeah, I mean I think I think we're really lucky that we got to grow up just I think so. Not getting and you know what else is funny that's happened to me three times this past week? People my age that I guess are getting more comfortable with me, three separate people, three set different environments, different occasions, saying things that made me look at them a different way.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:07

Really?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:08

Yeah. Cause just like one of them said, um she's mad because she got in trouble at work because they're hiring a lot of Hispanic girls, and she's like, I guess I'm gonna have to learn your language so I can hear what you're saying.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:25

You can't see me rolling my eyes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:28

So she said that at work, but then she said in front of me, um, you know, if you're gonna come to this country, learn the language. And I'm like, dude, how do you not know yet that this country doesn't have a language?

SPEAKER_03 1:02:41

For fuck's sake.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:42

English is not the American language.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:46

I think I think maybe that's another part of it too, is us as Gen Xers, I mean, we just don't fucking care. So we just say whatever rolls through our brain and whether they're good, bad, or indifferent. But for for the ones that are not saying you need to learn our language, you know what I mean? We're just like look at people like, what the fuck is wrong with you? And I yeah, I think that's another thing, too. Oddly enough, the fact that our generation as women specifically embraced cussing.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:17

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:18

Have you heard any man? I have never heard a man cuss as much as me. No, I haven't. No, I grew up in a kitchen, yes, of a restaurant, yes, with felons.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:29

Cussing is the best.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:30

I mean, I have net you've never prior to now.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:34

It is a new freedom though, because my father-in-law, who passed away about four years ago, um, he was close to 80, so whatever generation that was. Um, but I could not cuss in front of him, but he also would not cuss in front of me.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:54

My dad will not cuss in front of me. My um He won't say the F he won't say the F word.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:59

My um, my ex would tell me, you know, my dad said blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I'd be like, no way did he say that. And he's like, because he would never ever speak like that in front of me. I remember one time we were moving, um, we had this um portable sauna that we were selling, and we needed to help the people get it on the their car. And he had brought over, my father-in-law had brought over his trailer, and we were putting this thing up in it, and I was the one holding it. There you go, with the strong Gen X women. I was holding all the weight to lower it down to the thing while they were all kind of like and it fell right on the tip of my fingers. So I screamed, fuck. And my immediate reaction was to throw my hands over my mouth and say, Oh my god, I'm so sorry. And he just laughed. He's like, I'll let that one slide. That was the reason to use that word. But yeah, now, and when I, you know, when we were kids, we weren't allowed to cuss in front of our parents. I didn't let my kids cuss in front of me when they were until they got out of high school, really. And the purpose for that is you need to learn when it's appropriate to cuss and when it's not appropriate to cuss. So you need to instill in them. Oh, I shouldn't say this now. But now that they're adults, my daughter, my oldest daughter has a fouler mouth than I do.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:17

I I distinctly remember and I'm pretty sure it was you and your son.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:24

And he was like, I don't know, five, six, somewhere in that neighborhood. And he came in and maybe I I know it was, I'm pretty sure it was one of your kids. Came in and said, Am I allowed to say cuss words in my head? And you said, All of the ones you want, as long as they stay in your head. And he went in and did. Yep. I assume. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:48

Yep, it it probably was him because that was around the time that he said, Um, what the hell? Sometime. And I was like, You can't say that. So he started saying, What the what? And that's For the rest of his life. What the what? But yeah, they're adults now. That's how I talk.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:07

Why wouldn't I still can't am not allowed to. My mom smacks me. Um, yeah. I have seen videos of like on TikTok and stuff of parents and their kids cussing. And our friend Christine, she told her daughter, don't do it at school, but I don't care what I don't give a fuck what you say at home. Just don't say no when it's appropriate.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:28

That's another form of teaching them when it's right.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:31

When it's right and when you can't say it around, you know, people that will get offended by it.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:35

But yeah, because I meet with teenagers now in high schools, and I'll meet with them for the first time. I'm a professional in there, you're calling me Miss Bar, like, and they're cussing, just letting it fly. And I'm like, ooh. It's not appropriate. I mean, whatever. I'm not offended, but not appropriate.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:52

It's just it's it's funny that I I feel like it's and you hear it all. I mean, like, fuck is an everyday word. Now you don't. It's not the taboo that it was. And I feel like we did that. Like we Yeah. Fuck that.

unknown 1:07:05

Fuck this.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:07

Shit. That's that's our whole, that's our whole motto of life is fuck around and find out and fuck off. So like, yep, yep. You know, that's liberating also. Because I'm sorry, but if you call a man a pussy from a woman's mouth, it like the whole world collapses around them. They're just like, I cannot believe she just said that. Trust me, that's how I've gotten out of a lot of fights. A bitch works well too. Yeah. Call a man a bitch. But yeah. Pussy boy, that really like yeah. When you say it, they're like, oh.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:40

Yeah, that's right. Little bitch. Oh, it's so funny. Oh, right. Speaking of my oldest, she's blowing my phone out. She must have heard me talking about her. Ears are burning. She texted me earlier today. Do you want to take me to First Watch to eat? I was like, I'm working. Like, what is wrong with you, weirdo? No, I don't. Um, besides that, I just took you to the beach this weekend and spent we spent$110 in the spice and tea shop.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:12

That's too much in a tea shop. It was.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:14

Uh-huh. But we both got carried away. Okay, Lipton just, you know what I'm saying? I know, but there were so many gourmet tea. I got this one. It's banana nut tea. Oh, that sounds disgusting. Oh my god, it's delicious. But I had a cup last night and I'm pretty sure it wasn't caffeine-free because boy did I have trouble falling asleep.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:30

I'm drinking coffee right now and it is uh five o'clock.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:33

Yeah, I'm not built like that. I am built like that. All right, back to our story. The third wave was much more inclusive of women and girls of color than the first and second waves had been gen X. Um in reaction and opposition to stereotypical images of women as passive, weak, virginal, and faithful, or alternatively as domineering, demanding, slutty, or emasculating. Uh, the third wave redefined women and girls as assertive, powerful, and in control of their own sexuality. In popular culture, this redefinition uh gave rise to powerful, iconic women, including singers Madonna, the Queen. The Queen Latifa.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:19

If we do nothing else with this podcast, I just want to mean queen meet Queen Latifa. Okay. I don't care about literally anything else. Okay, I want to meet that woman. I know. I want to hug her, and I hate hugging. I will hug her. Yeah, yeah. If she would let me, I would ask. May I hug you? And if she's listening out there for whatever reason, I hate hugging, but I would want to hug you. Yeah, yeah. I think you're amazing. Yeah, and so beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:47

Yeah, and you're tall, but she'd be taller than you. It'd be one of those nice embracing hugs. Oh my gosh. Uh, and Mary J, uh, among others, and the women depicted in television series such as Buffy. Oh my god, I love Buffy, Sex in the City, and Girlfriends in 2000 to 2008. I don't know that one. I don't know that one either. Um, media programming for children increasingly depicted smart, independent girls and women in lead roles, including Disney heroines such as Aponymous Warrior in Mulan, and Helen Parr and the daughter Violet in The Incredibles, and television characters such as Dora the Explorer. I did love Dora the Explorer, that was fun. And speaking of The Incredibles, I never got into that one, but do you remember Spy Kids? No. It had Antonio Benderis and Oh, I didn't see it, but I know. Yeah. Oh man. Luckily, my kids were that of that age and they loved it. Those are some really good movies if you want to watch some old kids' movies. Um, Carly and Sam and iCarly and Sesame Street's first female lead, Abby Kadabi, who debuted in 2006. The sassy self-expression of girl power merchandise also proved popular. Early in the 1990s, third waivers embraced design making and do-it-yourself culture to distribute their own feminist publications. They also founded new nationally distributed magazines. Bus debuted in 1993, followed by Bitch in 1996 and Jane in 1997. I remember Jane. I was gonna say I know Jane, I don't remember the other two. Uh the increasing ease of publishing on the internet meant that easines, electronic magazines, and blogs became ambiguous. And did I get that right?

SPEAKER_01 1:11:35

Ubiquitous.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:36

Ubiquitous. No caffeinated tea for me. Many writers and organizers found that the internet offered a forum for the exchange of information and the publication of essays and videos to a potentially huge audience. The internet radically democratized the content of the feminist movement with respect to participants' aesthetics and issues. Heard predictably predictably, third waivers faced critics. Yeah. Uh, even as the third wave found its voice, some writers were declaring themselves post-feminist and arguing that the movement had lived beyond its usefulness. Clearly. That's hilarious. Uh, meanwhile, established feminists in the earlier generations argued that the issues had not really changed and that the younger women were not adding anything of substance. Fuck you. Um, by about 2000, some writers from inside and outside the movement rushed to declare that the wave had broken. In addition, questions of the meanings of sexualized behavior raised debate on whether such things as revealing clothing, designer label stiletto heels, and amateur pole dancing represented true sexual liberation and gender equality or old oppressions in disguise.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:00

I took a pole dancing class for quite a long time.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:02

Your sister had a pole in her house.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:04

We had a pole in the house.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:05

Yes, I remember that.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:07

It's an extremely good exercise.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:10

Oh, yeah. I remember when you did that.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:12

It is extremely liberating. I tell you all, take a class once, get yourself a pole. Very liberating, very good exercise, and you don't even know that you're exercising until the next day when you can barely move. But we took it for like three years. I remember. I loved it. Yeah, it's the only form of exercise I've ever enjoyed.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:37

You missed your calling.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:38

I know. I want to get a poll now. I would get one tomorrow.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:43

Uh, as with any other social or political movement, fissures and disagreements were present in each wave of feminism. The third wave, to an extent almost unimaginable to the members of the first and second wave before it, was plural and multifaceted, comprising people of many gender, ethnic, and class identities, experiences, and interests. As such, its greatest strength, multivocality, was attacked by some of its greatest weakness. Third wavers countered this criticism by stating that the creation of a unified agenda or philosophy, or at least one that was unified beyond the very general statements offered by groups such as Third Wave Foundation, groups and individuals working towards gender, racial, economic, and social justice, was a goal that was not only unrealistic but undesirable. And that's the end of that. But what I want to say here about the ending is the one big issue I have with women is that we are our own worst enemies. Yes. Women love to tear women down. Yes. Women blame women. I mean, when a husband cheats, who does the wife go after? The other woman. The other woman. Right. Um and you look like this or you dress like this. Women are the worst bullies. A hundred percent. Far worse than boys are. Yes. I mean, boys punch each other in the face and move on. Well, they do, or they call each other names, and as a kid, it's hurtful, and I'm not minimizing it, but as adults, they still talk to each other that way. It's just how they talk to each other.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:23

My dad's just you grow up and you figure it out. My dad's BFF. He loves this man. They have been friends as long as I have been on earth. Joe. He calls, and when when he calls my dad, my dad answers the phone. What do you want, asshole?

Menopause, HRT, And Midlife Revolt

SPEAKER_00 1:15:40

Exactly. Yeah, guys, just you know, whatever. But women, we gotta start being nicer to each other. I mean, come on. Like making some building someone up and making someone better does not take anything away from you. Nope. So just yeah, we we still have a long way to go. Reading through all of this, we've gotten a a lot done since the 20s. Well, it's been a hundred years now.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:09

I think one of the most important things that we are currently doing um is speaking about menopause.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:17

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:18

Because prior to you know, my mom, I knew my mom was going through menopause. Uh, but you never heard about oh god, no. Nothing. I mean, when you got your period, they would tell your first period, they would say, Oh, in like 35 years, 40 years, 50 years, it'll stop. Right. And then you can't have kids anymore. And that was it. That was boop, that was it. Yeah, it stops, you won't have kids anymore.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:44

I even like that now, like maxi pad commercials have red liquid going into the pad. It's not blue when it comes out, it's not clear, it's red. And that's what they do. Although I will say, I think men are trying to pay us back for all the girl commercials they didn't want to see. Because have you now seen that little pea pad thing that you can stick in your underwear as a man? I forget what it's called, but for older men of our age and older, um, it's this little pad that actually when the guy stuck it down in his undies, not that he did it right on the screen or anything, it actually kind of makes him look like he has a bulge. So I'm like, I want to see what you're doing here. But it's for for the dribble to catch the dribble. And I'm like, ew, I don't need to hear about your dribble.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:29

But I do, I think, you know, you see it on TV. You you see commercials for MIDI or you know, the HRT. And you know, none HRT was like, hush, hut. I mean, my mom, when I said to her, why I know it was around, but it caused breast cancer and it caused this and it caused it. It doesn't.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:48

Which was probably a bunch of older white men deciding that, yeah, based on basically nothing.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:53

And you didn't know, you didn't none of us knew what perimenopause was. We just thought one day when your period stops, that's the end of the bu that's the end of the road. And and it's not, it starts way before then. And it continues way after that, and it just is a horrible, horrible experience.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:13

It really is.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:14

And I think it's very important for us to to come out with it, to share and talk about it so that when your girls go through it, yes, they know what to expect, unlike us. And we're the worst people in the world to be blindsided by this nonsense because we're already hateful people, we already are angry over everything in the world, and so like this just compounding it is not good for things, and and that that's another thing. Like I feel like soon this is all gonna come to a head, and we're all in menopause, and we're gonna burn this bitch to the ground. I can't wait. Because I can't wait. At some point, we're all gonna sync up on our menopause journey.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:01

Yeah, and another topic that I considered for today, but I am going to do one day, is there's a new trend called gray divorce, where women our age are hitting menopause, and we're like, fuck this married life and this lump of mail that I have sitting here next to me that I haven't been happy with for years and years and years. I'm out. I'm gonna go hang out with my girls and live my life. There's also another trend, sorry. Um, women, if they get diagnosed with something terminal, they are divorcing their husbands and bringing their girlfriends in to be with them because they're like, I don't want to spend my last days with my husband. I want to spend my last days with my girls. Yeah. So we are rising up.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:43

I feel like we did we did that too. Like, you know, the the girls' trips, the golden girl life. Like, like I know I understand that they were like the silent generation or boomers or whatever, but we grew up like that. Was like, yeah. I mean, you and I have always said that when we get old, we're gonna move in a house together and we're gonna live, you know, the golden girl's life, which for us is gonna be she's gonna be in one half half of the house, and I'm gonna be in the other half of the house, and we'll text each other.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:11

Oh, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:12

But we won't speak, we'll never speak again. No, we'll come together to make the podcast. That'll be it. But I feel like that is a Gen X thing that like we're just I am telling you, at some point. We're over it. I think when we all get here, most of us are here now. Yeah, and and you know, obviously it happens for all of us at different times, but I feel like we're all gonna get on the same page at some point here. I've seen a lot of TikTokers, Gen X TikTokers being like, Why would you have a draft? Why would you not just send 50-year-old women to whatever country you want and just let us go?

unknown 1:20:47

That's it.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:49

That's another meme I l love is um who decided to sync up World War III and Gen X hitting menopause at the same time.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:57

And and this is exactly what I'm I'm talking about. Like, we talk about it. Yeah, you would have never heard our mothers unless it was in a hushed tone on the phone with their BFF. Like you didn't see it on TV, you didn't see it. You know, you just saw the crazy wife that she was, you know, acting crazy, but you didn't know why. Now we're like, you know what, bitch, I'm in menopause. You just step off with that tone.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:23

Yeah, I say it openly in professional environments, like if I'm having a hot flash or my joints are aching, or I'm tired because I couldn't sleep good, I'm like, menopause, it's menopause.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:35

I can see it in in our office. I can see the women that are older. And when I'm like, oh, sweet baby Jesus, I'm having a hot flash, and they kind of like look over at me and then look away, and then the woman in the next case over, she's hitting menopause too, and she's like leaned over, like, oh my god, I know. What the fuck? Uh the poor older ladies are probably like, oh my god, I know they're like that much older than us, but it's still like a hush-hush over there. And her and I are just like, What actually the fuck is happening? God, I'm gonna die.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:11

I was in the group I was with today. I was um with a group of colleagues from a bunch of different places, and there was only one man there, and the rest of us were women. And somebody asked him how he felt spending the past two days with all women. He's like, Oh, I'm a teacher. He was like, I've primarily just been around women anyway. And the one woman used to work with him. She's like, Yeah, her and another teacher. She said, We both hit menopause at the same time while he was working with closely with the two of us. And one minute I'd be up opening the window because I'm sweating, and she'd be over there closing the window because she was freezing, and then she'd be opening the window because she was hot. And he's just cracking up. He's like, Yep, that really happened. They were like, We're pre-he turned 40 today, so they were like, We were preparing him for when his wife gets there. So, and they're probably about 10 years older than me, but they were talking openly about it. So, I mean, that is how it is now.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:06

My other coworker that's next to the the two of us, his he's the same age as us, and um he we were going back and forth, and he was like, Yeah, that's my wife. Yeah, my wife is having that problem. I just I just try and stay away. I don't and you know, that's the best thing you can do. It's just it's beyond our control, kids. I don't know. It is, and I'm telling you, we're all gonna sync up. We're gonna burn this bitch to the ground. I can't wait. Let's go, girls. That was lovely.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:36

Thanks. It was fun, very empowering. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:40

We gotta do it.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:41

It's good to know our history. Happy um women's history month to everyone. My birthday falls on International Women's Day, which I am so honored that I get to share that day. Um, so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:53

Well, if you've enjoyed this episode, like, share, rate, review, please. We have a new somebody that has downloaded our entire uh category. Welcome. Yay. Wherever you are from. Think up with us and burn this bitch to the ground. Yeah. Um, you can find us anywhere that you would find a podcast. Anywhere. You can find us on all the socials. All of them. At Like Whatever Pod. You can go to YouTube. We have a YouTube page, like whatever pod. Uh we have a website. There's some W's and some dots and some likewhatepod.com. You can you can send us an email as to where we're gonna start this revolution and burn this bitch to the ground at likewhateverpod at gmail.com or don't like whatever. Whatever. Bye.