Family: Some Assembly Required

Blood doesn’t automatically make someone safe, loving, or present and Gen X learned that lesson early. After a quick round of travel chaos, cats, and the kind of airport anxiety that ends with an $11 beer and no time to eat, we pivot into a Pride Month conversation about chosen family and why it became a lifeline for so many LGBTQ people coming of age in the 1970s through the 1990s. 

We talk about what it meant to grow up with scarce queer representation, casual cruelty like “that’s so gay,” and almost no institutional protection. Without the internet, community was built through coded signals, subcultures, and the places you could finally exhale. We dig into how the AIDS crisis reshaped queer kinship in real, practical ways: caregiving networks, grief rituals, legal advocacy, and the often-underrated role lesbians played in showing up for gay men when families and systems refused. 

From there, we look at how PFLAG changed the script for parents who wanted to learn how to love their kids out loud, and how nightlife and performance spaces became more than entertainment. Drag families, ballroom houses, goth scenes, and club communities created mentorship, safety, and belonging long before “found family” became mainstream language. We also share support resources, including The Trevor Project, Trans Lifeline, SAGE, PFLAG, and The Black Line. 

If this hits home, subscribe, share the episode with someone in your circle, and leave a review so more people can find it. Who counts as family to you, and why?

Transcript

Cold Open And Gen X Catch-Up

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Two best friends, we're talking fast, we're mixing to our case, we're having a blast. Teenage dreams, me on screens, it was all bad, but like you know, it's like whatever. Together, forever, never, never, never. Lapping, sharing, our story, whatever. We'll take you back, it's like whatever.

SPEAKER_07 0:31

Welcome to Like Whatever, a podcast for, by, and about Gen X. I'm Nicole, and this is my BFFF, Heather. Hello.

Florida Food Cats And The Legion

SPEAKER_07 0:42

So I just returned from Florida late last night. Went down and hung out with the parents for a couple days.

SPEAKER_05 0:51

Lovely.

SPEAKER_07 0:51

Mm-hmm. We had a great time. We basically ate our way through my visit. Lovely even better. Yes, lots lots of very, very good food. And they're members of the American Legion, so we had to stop by there every day. Now I have friends in there. I've been there enough that people know me and remember me. I got a lot of hugs when we left yesterday.

SPEAKER_05 1:12

When you go to retire down there, you'll have to place yourself.

SPEAKER_07 1:15

Well, they gave me his uh my dad's military document because as his daughter I could join the American Legion. So they gave me the form I would need um if I wanted to join one up here. Which I don't know, maybe in the future we'll see. That'd be fun. Yeah. Um yeah, my my um we went shopping.

SPEAKER_01 1:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:36

I bought a lot of clothes. Even better. Mm-hmm. It was very hard to get my suitcase clothes on the way home, but I did it. Um let's see. I saw a lot of cats. They have strays. And then the lady that lives next door, I met her cat as a baby last time I visited. So I had to go over this time and see it as a grown-up. See it as a grown-up, yes. Sure, sure. Yep, yep. Everybody down there has cats. I have no doubt. Everybody. And they're all like super crazy cat people like me. And my dad has well, three cats as of now, two kittens that they have out on their lanai, which is what you call a porch and porch. And um, they're not in the house yet, but then they'll have five. But they're one, um, Harry, he's a main coon. He's up to 23 pounds. Big boy. Yes. And he has um heart stuff that he has medication for, but his heart doctor said his weight's just fine. That's good. He is a bit like his head is huge, his feet are huge. They're big cats. Yeah. And he loves me so much. He makes me feel so good because whenever I go to visit, he comes running to me like a dog would. So excited to see me. Maine Coons are very dog like. He wouldn't leave me alone the whole time. Like, he absolutely loves me.

SPEAKER_03 3:04

That one you stuck me with was like magic.

SPEAKER_07 3:11

Yep. So yeah, we had fun. Good. Um, yeah.

Birds Are Dinosaurs And Science Shifts

SPEAKER_07 3:16

On the way down, I was listening to uh NPR and they had a scientist on explaining why birds are dinosaurs. Excellent. And that dinosaurs had feathers. Yes. Yep, yep. It was very interesting. And one thing that I learned that I didn't know, but you probably do, is the reason that birds are the only dinosaur species to survive. Is that accurate? Mm-hmm. Um, is because they eat seeds and they're the only creature that eats seeds. And seeds are the last thing to go when the planet is falling apart and there's nothing to eat. So they still were able to eat the seeds. Yes. Mm-hmm. And they also originally their wings were not for flying. They were for they he called them banners for either scaring something off or attracting a mate, things like that. And then they evolved into flight. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_05 4:10

That's why they that's why they stick their wings out when they're angry and scared. Yep. It's their dinosaur ancestors coming out and look, I live with a tiny dinosaur, and her dinosaur instincts come out nearly every day when she takes a hunk of my flesh with her.

SPEAKER_07 4:31

And he also explained that 10 years ago we didn't know all this about the birds and the dinosaurs and such. And he said, and in 10 years, we will have new information and things will be different because that's the way science works. Yes. That is the way science works.

SPEAKER_05 4:49

We discover more fossils, we do more research, we find out, we get smarter, we build on what we already know. Science is an ever-changing thing. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. It's like it's not a book story in a book about nope.

SPEAKER_03 5:08

People that never existed.

SPEAKER_05 5:10

It's not set in stone people. It's not. It's ever changing. It's that's why they call them theories, not fact. Exactly. Yes. Because they can change. And scientists will tell you. Sometimes we don't know. Yeah. We don't know what we don't know.

SPEAKER_04 5:28

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_05 5:29

Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 5:30

Yeah.

Airport Anxiety And A Sad Meal Plan

SPEAKER_04 5:31

I didn't do anything all week. I don't think. Did I? Nope. I delivered mail.

SPEAKER_07 5:41

My plane lo loaded so early. I'm one of those that has to get there two hours early. Yes. I saw.

SPEAKER_05 5:48

Because I stalker on life 360.

SPEAKER_07 5:51

Yes. Because I have anxiety. And I would rather sit in the airport for two hours than have something happen and I don't make it in time. So I got there and got through TSA real quick and found a bar and sat down and had an $11 draft beer. Holy moose. Yeah. Um, and then I was done and I was, I still had an hour till my flight. So I was gonna go find a little some something to take on there to eat. Yeah. And I walked by my gate and there's a long line, and people are getting on the plane. And so I went to the lady at the counter. I was like, is this flight boarding now? And she was like, Yep. I was like, okay. No food for me. Oh, I was starving by the time I landed. I didn't land till like 9 30, maybe nine o'clock, I don't know, somewhere in there. So I had to get some Arby's on the way home.

SPEAKER_05 6:47

I was gonna have Arby's the other day, but I was so hard to get to. I was like, fuck it.

SPEAKER_03 6:52

I think I got Arby's. Yeah. I've been craving some Arby's though. Mm-hmm. It was good. What did I do?

SPEAKER_07 7:00

Zero Things. I think the World Cup starts this week. I think so. USA plays Paraguay on Friday, I heard. I don't know anything about it. I don't either. I just heard it on the news.

SPEAKER_03 7:14

I know that at the next game, somebody got booed pretty loudly.

SPEAKER_07 7:21

And then he was getting the finger as he was leaving because they lost. Yes. Eat jinx dicks. Yes. You can't mess with the jinx. You cannot, no. No, you cannot. I know.

SPEAKER_05 7:36

Because I am the jinx for the Philadelphia Eagles, so uh I can never step foot in that stadium again.

SPEAKER_07 7:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 7:42

I know.

SPEAKER_07 7:42

Oh, the first the first day I got to um uh Florida. Of course I was hungry when we landed. I'm always hungry. And we went to a cute there's a lot of neat restaurants that are very kind of tiki style with outside seating and it's all open concept kind of stuff. So we went to one of those and I walk in and there is eagle stuff everywhere. It was a Philadelphia Eagles bar in Florida.

SPEAKER_05 8:08

That's because everybody from Florida is from somewhere else. Yes, that is true. That is true. They're all from the north. Snowbirds. Typically they're from New York, but I think all the New Yorkers moved here. We're like the halfway stop.

SPEAKER_07 8:21

There's a lot of people down there from like Indiana, Ohio, um, New England, things like that. Yeah. You're on the West Coast that your dad's on the west coast. Correct. The golf.

SPEAKER_03 8:35

Yep. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 8:36

Yep. I like the golf. Yeah, I do too. It's pretty. It's too hot. It was 97 degrees when I left. Oh my gosh. And the humidity stupid humidity. Yeah, because the night before it just out of nowhere. The sun's bright. It was kind of before right before dusk, and it just downpoured with the sun out. Yeah. And then the next day it was 97 degrees. I mean God cried.

SPEAKER_04 9:05

Yes, yes, it does. That's what happens. God's crying. I get it. We're all crying, God. You could fix this, but no.

SPEAKER_05 9:19

You refuse to intervene.

SPEAKER_07 9:21

Yeah, we got ourselves into this mess. Yeah. We're gonna get ourselves out of this.

SPEAKER_05 9:25

We're not. Or we're not. Swinny sins hell and damnation, I guess. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 9:31

Um I don't think I have it. I'm I'm so boring. Yeah, that's okay. Maybe one day you'll be exciting.

SPEAKER_05 9:39

I won't ever. It's my nature. I'm not an exciting person. I'm okay with that. Yeah, yeah. I'm pretty fucking boring. Oh no, I know what.

Food Allergies And The Fish Stick Line

SPEAKER_05 9:50

I did try to die this week. God damn it. I'm so mad about it too. Because I can't I was eat have been eating tuna fish in a can, canned tuna fish. Right. Sandwiches. Because I enjoy look, I like fish. Here's the thing I don't care that I'm allergic to things. I never have. I eat them anyway. Um yeah. Shrimp's the bad one, though. I cannot get away with eating shrimp. Yes. Much as I try. Yes. I it's it's bad. And then my my allergist scared me a while ago and was like, you know, it can change any second. It can become dramatically worse at any point. And I was like, oh. She also said, and you also know that when you clear your throat, when you go, that's when you should give yourself the EpiPen and call 911. And I was like, oh. That's different because that happens all the time. Anyhow. And I was in the grocery store and I was like, God damn, I love fish sticks. I know it's not even real fucking fish. It is, but not. And I was like, I really, really, really, really love fish sticks.

SPEAKER_07 11:07

That's what my stepmom said. She was like, she risked it for fish sticks. I was like, she eats like a five-year-old. I love fish sticks. She eats chicken nuggets, but only the ones shaped like dinosaurs.

SPEAKER_05 11:19

So I just found out that you can get tater tot shaped like dinosaurs now, too. Oh, you have another food to add. I have a whole battle, Jurassic battle. Anyhow, yes, I like fish sticks. And so I had fish sticks. And I knew going into it, this is probably a bad idea. And I also knew don't cook too many of them. Just cook like one or two to get the taste. But no, I'm stubborn, and so I made eight. And then I ate five. And then I was like, uh-oh. I passed the threshold. And my tongue started getting itchy, and I was like, damn it. I didn't die, everybody. It's okay. But then I Googled because I was like, what does Google say? Google panicked full on it.

SPEAKER_07 12:08

It did. She sent it to me. Google was not happy with Google.

SPEAKER_05 12:11

Google's like, unlock your door immediately. Call 911. What the fuck were you thinking? We're not even speaking to you anymore. I'm calling 911 for you, and I'm not really even a person. I mean full-on panic. Like that was the first thing it said. Get up and unlock your door immediately. Yep. All right. But what I have now learned from this is you can eat four fish sticks. I can eat just two. Okay. Because it was uncomfortable for the rest of the night because I had to throw them up. Anyhow. Yeah. I did know that my final solution plan will work. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Because I'm going to go for the heavy hitter. First, I already just first I'm going to start out with the crab. Of course. Yeah. The crab legs. I just like Maryland blue claw crab claws. That's so funny.

SPEAKER_07 13:07

I don't like the claws. Many people do. But oh, it's so sweet and so good.

SPEAKER_05 13:11

No, Dad and Janet love it. And I don't like Alaskan king crab legs. I don't like any of that. We had snow crab legs. I don't like them either. I mean, I don't, it's not that I don't like them, but that's not gonna be my last meal. Right, right. It's gonna be married. So I'm gonna have to wait and do it in the summer. Number one. Maryland blue claw. Just the claws. And then I'm gonna get me some popcorn shrimp.

SPEAKER_03 13:35

And I'm gonna eat them all. Until I can't eat them anymore. Then that's that. Until your throat closes off and they can't swallow.

SPEAKER_05 13:43

Until I cannot no longer swallow.

unknown 13:47

Yep.

SPEAKER_05 13:48

That's what's gonna happen. Yeah. Yeah. And so now I'm confident that my plan will indeed work. Yeah. As long as I'm left alone.

SPEAKER_07 13:54

Yeah. See, and you said you're boring. You were productive this week. I did. I was, I did. You did research.

SPEAKER_05 14:00

I did. I did my research. And the worst part is, is when I was Googling it, because I was like, what happens? If your tongue gets itchy, I know what happens, but I was like, well, what happens if your tongue gets itchy while you eat fish? And it was like, you're having a reaction to it. And I was like, and it says, Are you do you have any known allergies? And I was like, Yeah. Because I love to talk to the AI. I know I shouldn't, but I do. Um, I was like, Yeah, I'm allergic to sh to shrimp. And and it was like, Well wrong with you. And then it was like, well, typically, because it's not. It's typically you're either allergic to finned fish or you're allergic to shellfish. Very rarely do you have them both. Lucky you. Yeah. It's because I eat like a child and I enjoy fish. And so God was like, nah. But that's why I chose fish sticks. Yeah. Because I was like, well, the least fish of fish. And that's why I eat tuna fish in a can, because it's the least fish of fish.

SPEAKER_07 15:02

And it doesn't bother you to eat the tuna fish, or it does a little bit.

SPEAKER_05 15:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:07

It does a little bit.

SPEAKER_05 15:08

I mean it doesn't make my tongue itchy, but I can feel it in my ears. That's the best way I can explain. Okay. Yep. Like I feel it in my ears.

SPEAKER_07 15:16

My stepmom makes the best tuna macaroni salad. And that's what I requested this time. I don't know how she makes it. It is so good. I'm a very good cook and I'm good at making salads, and I cannot do it the way she does. So me and my dad were eating like a little plate of it every day. No. One day we had it for second breakfast. But usually it was second lunch. I can't do that. I think it was a nighttime snack one night, too. Oh, it was so good. And I don't like cucumbers, but the I will only eat hers. She slices them really, really thin, and then you're not gonna like this either. But like mayonnaise, vinegar, sugar, salt, and sliced onions. And oh my gosh, they're so good.

SPEAKER_05 16:02

And this is see, this is exactly why now, especially now as a grown-up, I can specifically say no, I'm not, but I don't like when you know when like I mean it's different because it was your parents, but when you go on vacation and people are like, oh, come stay with me, that's a hard no for me.

SPEAKER_07 16:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 16:21

Because I don't know what kind of food you have. Exactly. And I'm too I'm too me to be stay. I have to stay in a hotel.

SPEAKER_07 16:29

I mean, you're easy to take out to eat because everywhere is cheeseburgers everywhere.

SPEAKER_05 16:33

I'm easy to feed. Yeah. Because if you buy me pizza, I'm pretty good. Yeah. I am I'm cheap to feed. Yeah. I should say. But if you want all that fancy shit, like I'm out. And so, and then you never know what people have at their houses to like eat. And so I'm just it's like go, it's a no-go for me. I'm not gonna stay at your house ever. Mm-hmm. I mean your house I would, right?

SPEAKER_03 16:57

Because I'd be like, what the fuck is this? And have before. I would I would just get your pizza. Yeah, I was very upset with her ketchup situation. I'm sorry. I know.

SPEAKER_07 17:06

I do have the right kind now. That's good. Mm-hmm. All right. Enough about me and my ketchup is my thism.

Quick Ways To Support The Pod

SPEAKER_07 17:16

All right, before we get started, uh like, share, rate review. Um, find us wherever you listen to your podcasts. We are on all the socials at like whatever pod. Yes. We have a website, like whateverpod.com. Uh we are on YouTube. And I feel like I'm missing one, but I except for uh send us an email at like whateverpod at gmail.com. But I still feel like I missed one. But I'm sure okay. You'll catch it up at the end. Yes.

SPEAKER_05 17:53

Um, so it's my week. Yes. And I thought and I would do something um a little different. Okay. Because I'm a little different. I'm old teapot.

Pride Month And Defining Chosen Family

SPEAKER_05 18:05

Um so we're gonna fuck around and find out about the chosen the concept of chosen family in honor of Pride Month. Yay! Yes, I love it. First, I would like to say that if you're interested in stories about chosen family, our friend Pat Green has um two very lovely books. Uh Hearts of Glass Living in the Real World and Hearts of Glass Fade Away and Radiate. And that is about Found Family. Um, you should uh check him out. He does a lot of work with Found Family and Survivors of Abuse and Yes, yes, all the support support Pat Pat Author Pat Green authority.com. Yep, yep.

SPEAKER_04 18:56

I just literally had it in there anyway.

SPEAKER_05 18:59

So I'm gonna get that out of the way.

SPEAKER_00 19:01

Yep. Hey, it's Pat Green. Ever feel like your life is straight out of a stranger thing scene, but the monsters were people and experiences. My Hearts of Glass books have that vibe of 80s nostalgia minus endemic organs. Set in the late 80s, Fox Valley Mall near Chicago. It's a story of Cassie, a punk rock girl, Ford, a traumatized former child model, and Jenny, a preppy dreamer, all outsiders who band together. In the middle of neon and trauma, they discover a found family where none existed before. I wanted to capture that raw Gen X truth. After all those iconic John Hughes moments, real life still threw us curveballs. If you've ever craved a story about healing from trauma and growing up with heart, this could be it. Grab Hearts of Glass Living in the Real World and its companion, Hearts of Glass Fade Away and Radiate, at PackGreenauthor.com or Barnstormer Publishing.com. It's available in ebook, audiobook, and paperback. Dive into an eighties time capsule with characters who feel like old friends.

SPEAKER_05 20:04

The concept of chosen family has become a central analytical framework in LGBTQ studies, queer theory, and contemporary social science. While the term is widely used today to describe non-biological kinship networks, its historical development is deeply rooted in the lived experience of LGBTQ individuals who came of age during the late 20th century. For Gen X, those born oh, we know that. Gen X queers grew up in an era defined by silence, stigma, and the absence of institutional support. As a result, they developed kinship systems that were improvisional, interdependent, and profoundly resilient. So I also wanted to do this because um so as we know, growing up as a goth, you kind of move towards the gay, I feel like the gay and I will talk about it later, but the gay community and the goth community kind of go hand in hand together. Um because it's a and I also think it's important to understand that you know as Gen Xers, we were all probably trying to find family because Yeah. We didn't have any.

SPEAKER_07 21:35

We did, but yeah, we did, but it was we were kind of coming out of where people just spent all their time with their families. Yes. I feel like. And we were because we were just left to run run free and do whatever we wanted to do. So we weren't necessarily home doing all that family stuff all the time.

SPEAKER_05 21:57

And you know, it's funny because you say that and yeah, like You know, back in the 50s it was family dinners and every night, and then we were kind of like roaming the streets with our friends.

SPEAKER_07 22:07

Yep.

SPEAKER_05 22:08

Chosen family.

SPEAKER_07 22:09

Yes, exactly. And I remember as a little kid, we were still maintaining those holidays. You know, we'd go to Jersey and see my family and things like that. But that really died off by the time I was like a preteen. Yeah. And I didn't all these cousins and aunts and uncles I was so close to, I just didn't see them anymore.

SPEAKER_05 22:28

Uh lucky I'm lucky in that my mom's family there, it's small. Like they just have one cousin. Right. So Yeah. And when her parents died, they like they really made an effort to stay in touch. Right. And they still do. Yep. Um so to understand the significance of chosen family for Gen X, it's necessary to situate their adolescence with the socio, political, and cultural landscape of the 70s through the 90s. This period was characterized by limited LGBTQ representation, widespread homophobia, and the absence of legal protections. Queer Gen Xers grew up in a world where their identities were rarely named, often pathologized, and frequently punished. In the 70s and early 80s, LGBTQ characters in mainstream media were scarce and typically portrayed as tragic, villainous, or mentally unstable. Positive representation was virtually non-existent. As uh queer queer characters were often coded rather than explicitly identified, leaving young viewers without clear mirrors for their identities. The absence of representation created a developmental environment in which many Gen X queer lack youth lacked language for their experience. The few portrayals that did exist were often sensationalized or moralizing. Television movies about gay men frequently ended in death, violence, or despair. Lesbian characters were depicted as predatory or mentally unstable. Trans characters were almost entirely absent except as punchlines or plot twists. This cultural erasure shaped the internal internal landscape of queer genics youth who often grew up believing they were alone. And that's another thing, like, and I know I'm guilty of it, not anymore, but like you just all the time things were gay. Yeah. Like that's so gay. Mm-hmm. I mean, I still use it now, but I think I say that sounds gay. I'm in.

SPEAKER_07 24:31

Yeah, and you just reminded me with saying with the representation and then how it was just kind of a mockery if it was anywhere. I watched a lot of old people TV while I was at my dad's, which is always fun because I don't watch it on my own, but I remember all of it. And we watched an episode of MASH, which I have stated on here before might be my favorite episode of all time. And Klinger was a funny character, but he dressed like a woman, so he would seem crazy. Yes. Yep. So yeah, it's boo boo on that.

SPEAKER_03 25:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 25:02

I mean, it was always a transgenders were always the joke.

SPEAKER_07 25:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 25:09

Gen X was the last generation to come of age before the internet. Without digital communities, queer youth relied on analog methods of the self-discovery and community formation zines, underground newspapers, classified ads, record stores, and the occasional LGBTQ shelf in a library. Queer youth in this era developed subcultural literacies that allowed them to identify with one another through subtle clues, shared aesthetic, and coded language. For many, the first glimpse of queer life came from unexpected sources. A copy of the village voice founded in a found in a bookstore, a punk zine with a queer contributor, a music video featuring gender non-conforming performers, or a whispered rumor about a gay bar in the next town. These fragments of information were lifelines offering glimpses of a world beyond compulsory heterosexuality. We're also different here because we have a huge and have always always, always, a huge gay community in Rehoboth. Yes. Um so we are also a little different here because it wasn't as hidden. Correct. But you knew when you went to Rehoboth that there was gay people in Rehoboth. Exactly. Yes. But there was drag shows everywhere.

SPEAKER_07 26:27

There were. And clubs. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think I don't think there are any gay clubs there anymore, are there?

SPEAKER_03 26:33

There's no clubs. Yeah. They don't do that anymore. It's all bars. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 26:39

And the blue moon just got sold. I heard. That blows my mind. That's been there since we were kids. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 26:46

The political climate of the 80s was marked by the rise of the moral majority, the family values movement, and the Reagan administration's refusal to acknowledge that the AIDS uh to acknowledge the AIDS crisis. Schools offered no protection for LGBTQ students, and many queer youth faced bullying, harassment, or expulsion. Conversion therapy was widely practiced and often encouraged by religious institutions. And it still is. Anti-sodomy laws remained in effect in many states, criminalizing queer existence. The environment intensified the need for alternative kinship structures. For many Gen X queer individuals, adolescence was defined by secrecy, fear, and isolation. Coming out often meant risking family rejection, social ostracism, or violence. In this context, chosen family emerged not as an optional supplement to biological kinship, but a necessary foundation for survival and self-actualization. Yes.

AIDS Era Care Networks That Saved Lives

SPEAKER_05 27:44

The AIDS epidemic, beginning in 1981, was the defining event of queer gen X's formative years. Even those who were children or teenagers absorbed the fear, stigma, and grief that permeated the culture. The epidemic was not only decimated the LGBTQ community, but also reshaped the very structure of queer kinship. The federal government's delayed response to AIDS combined with widespread homophobia created a vacuum of care. Hospitals refused treatment, funeral homes declined services, and families often rejected their sons, brothers, and partners. The epidemic revealed the extent to which queer people were excluded from traditional kinships and institutional support systems.

SPEAKER_07 28:27

The rights It's so gross to me that medical care is based on and it's not just for the queer population. Like black women die in childbirth at an astronomically larger amount than white women do. Because doctors don't listen to them when they say something's wrong. It's just it's unbelievable to me. It is like how can you not like isn't that your oath, harm nun? I I can't. Yeah. I I can't imagine looking at a human another human and not helping them.

SPEAKER_05 29:05

I can't imagine how you can think that there is a difference between anyone because of the color of their skin. Yeah. I mean, once you peel that skin off, we all look the same.

SPEAKER_07 29:15

Yep.

SPEAKER_05 29:16

Not that I know from personal experience. But pretty sure we all tick the same way. I've watched enough true crime to know that once I've seen enough crime scene photos that we do indeed all look the same on the other side.

SPEAKER_03 29:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 29:33

The Reagan administration did not publicly acknowledge AIDS until 1985, by which time thousands had died. Funding for research and treatment laggard far behind the scene, behind the scale of the crisis. Media coverage was sensationalistic, often framing AIDS as a moral punishment rather than a public health emergency. Yep. One of the most significant and historically underrecognized aspects of the AIDS crisis was the role of lesbians in providing direct care to gay men. Oral histories, act up archives, and community health records consistently document that lesbians served as primary caregivers, organized home care networks, staffed early AIDS clinics and hospice programs, provided transportation to medical appointments, advocated for hospital visitation rights, often offered emotional and legal support, and participated in direct action campaigns demanding research and funding.

SPEAKER_07 30:36

Good lesbians. I know.

SPEAKER_05 30:39

Lesbian caregivers were essential to the survival of many gay men abandoned by their families or denied institutional care. Their labor was rooted in feminist health care organizing traditions from the 70s, which emphasized community-based care, bodily automatic and mutual aid. Lesbian caregivers often worked in teams, rotating responsibility to provide to prevent burnout. They developed systems for medication management, meal preparation, and emotional support. Many provided end-of-life companionship, ensuring that no one died alone. Their contributions were not only practical, but also profoundly emotional, offering dignity and love in the face of widespread stigma. In San Francisco, lesbian volunteers formed structured caregiving teams through organizations like the Shanty Project and the Women's AIDS Network. These teams provided daily home visits, medication management, meal prep, hospital advocacy, and companionship during end-of-life care. Many gay men reported that their lesbian caregivers were the only family who stayed. The Women's AIDS Network, founded in 1983, trained volunteers in home-based care, grief counseling, and patient advocacy. Their work was grounded in feminism principles of collective responsibility and community empowerment. As one volunteer recalled, we weren't just caregivers, we were family, and we were the ones who showed up. The Act Up Women's Caucus played a central role in demanding research on women and AIDS, supporting gay men in clinical trials, organizing direct actions, and providing emotional and logistical support to caregivers. Their activism expanded the definition of chosen family to include political kinship. Women in Act Up challenged the male-dominated medical establishment, fought for inclusive research protocols, and provided essential labor within the movement. Their contributions were often overshadowed by the more visible actions of male activists, but their impact was profound. As Shulman. The women of Act Up were the backbone of the movement.

SPEAKER_07 32:54

That's really cool. I don't think I realized all that. I didn't.

SPEAKER_05 32:57

Mm-mm. But we would have been too young to really have known that back then. During the height of the epidemic, chosen family networks functioned as medical support systems, emotional support systems, legal advocates, grief networks, and housing networks. For Gen X queer individuals witnessing this, whether as young adults or adolescents, the lesson was clear. Family is defined by care and not blood. Chosen family became the primary site of mourning, caregiving, and community resilience. Funerals were often organized by friends rather than relatives. Wills were drafted with chosen family members as beneficiaries. Hospital visitation lists were filled with partners, friends, and caregivers rather than biological kin. The epidemic reshaped the very meaning of kinship within the LGBT community. AIDS forced queer people to reimagine the boundaries of family, community, and political solidarity. For Gen X, these remain reimagined boundaries became the foundation of adult life. Um let's do your thing now.

SPEAKER_02 34:03

Okay. Because I repeat your life, well I can feel her teenage life. So have a sex and freak your soul.

SPEAKER_07 34:17

Alright, so today in my diary, uh, we are at April 27th, 1985. And I'm feeling like maybe I was hitting puberty around this time because this one's about a boy too. Oh. Well, firstly, dear diary. Dear diary. Today my sister was queen for Angie's parade. She got a sash that said Frenchie's dock and a flower. Huh. What parade?

SPEAKER_05 34:53

Parade for Angie. Oh, Angie gets her own parade. I guess. And your sister gets a crown. Yes. It's interesting. I don't know what you people did up there. Well, she got a flower too. Scott Sussex County.

SPEAKER_07 35:09

Huh? You were in Sussex County. I lived in Sussex County, yes. Yes, I did. Um Scott also gave me a love tap. He hit me in front of everybody. That's not a love tap. Well, that's what we used to teach our girls. If a boy hits you, then he likes you. Yep, and there it is right there. My little 12-year-old it is. That sums up everything you need to know. Yeah, yeah. Um, yeah, and then there's just a whole bunch of uh Nicole Lovescott all over the paper. But we just loved who do we love last year? Philip. Philip. We did. Yeah. God, so yeah. I was flying through them back then.

SPEAKER_04 35:54

I was a little boy crazy when I was younger. I was trying to be a boy.

SPEAKER_05 36:02

Then I was doing everything I could to not be a girl.

SPEAKER_04 36:07

I mean, not for real, but I was a tomboy. Yes, you were full-on. Oh yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_05 36:15

There was no girliness in me. Nope. I don't know. I I would try to put makeup on, and I'm much as if I were to do it today, I would look like E.T. in his costume.

SPEAKER_07 36:29

It still freaks me out when you get your nails done.

SPEAKER_05 36:32

I know, and I found this girl, and I she's not sending me a message back. I'm gonna have to try again. She is a goth girl that does nails, and you should see some of the nails she's been putting out.

SPEAKER_03 36:45

And I'm like, I need those so bad.

SPEAKER_05 36:49

Because I can't grow my nails because I'm a nail biter. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Because I'm not girly at all. No. Even when I wear skirts, I have to wear shorts under my skirts. And Doc Martins.

SPEAKER_04 37:02

And Doc Martin's. Yes. I don't even know how to walk in heels, guys. I don't look like an idiot. I look like an ogre.

PFLAG And The Power Of Parents

SPEAKER_05 37:15

While queer communities built internal care networks during the AIDS crisis, another movement emerged that reshaped the relationship between LGBTQ individuals and their biological families. P FLAG, parents, families, and friends of lesbian and gays, for many Gen X queer people, P FLAG represented the first visible example of parental support, advocacy, and public affirmation. Its existence challenged the assumption that biological families were inherently hostile or incapable of change. P FLAG began in 1973 when Jean Manford, a school teacher from Queens, marched with her gay son Morty in the Christopher Street Liberation Day march. She carried a sign that read, Parents of Gays Unite in Support for Our Children. The response was immediate and overwhelming. LGBTQ marchers approached her in tears, asking if she would speak to their parents to help them come out. Manford's simple act of solidarity revealed a profound need for parental support networks. The first P FLAG meeting was held shortly afterward in the basement of a church in Greenwich Village. Only a handful of parents attended, but the organization grew steadily throughout the 70s. By the early 80s, PFLAG had established chapters across the United States, offering support groups, educational materials, and advocacy training. During the 80s and 90s, PFLAG expanded rapidly in response to the AIDS crisis and the increasing visibility of LGBTQ youth. For many Gen X queer individuals, PFLAG was the first organization to publicly assert that parents could and should love and support their LGBTQ children. PFLAG played a crucial role in helping families navigate the complexity of coming out during a period of intense social stigma. They provide support groups for parents struggling to understand their children's identities, educational workshops on children's on sexual orientation, gender identity, and HIV AIDS, advocacy training for lobbying schools, hospitals, and legislators, grief support for families affected by AIDS, community outreach to religious institutions, schools, and workplaces. PFLAG's presence at Pride Marches, often with signs reading, I love my gay son, or I'm proud of my lesbian daughter, offered powerful counter narratives to the rejection many queer genetics experienced at home. PFLAG NYC became a central hub for parents navigating their children's diagnosis. The children's support group. Oh, the chapter organized support groups for grieving parents, advocated for hospital visitation rights, and partnered with Act Up demand better medical care. They also provided public testimony in favor of non-discrimination laws and safe school policies. For many Gen X queer individuals, PFLAG NYC demonstrated that biological family could evolve and that chosen family could include parents who learned to show up. As one parent recalled, PFLAG taught me how to be the mother my son needed, not the mother I thought I was supposed to be. So also I think P FLAG also helped because those who did not have supportive parents could go to P FLAG parents and they would be adopted.

SPEAKER_07 40:44

And there are still I love the parents that go to the pride marches and wear the free hugs. Free hugs. T-shirts. Free mom hugs. Yeah, I think that's so sweet. Yeah.

Clubs Ballroom Goth And Finding Belonging

SPEAKER_05 40:54

Nightlife played a central role in the formation of chosen family for Gen X queer individuals. Clubs, bars, drag shows, and alternative subcultures functioned as social, cultural, and political spaces where queer people could gather, express themselves, and build community. These spaces were not merely sites of entertainment, they were laboratories of identity, belonging, and kinship. For many Gen X, queer bars and clubs were the first places they encountered community. These spaces offered anonymity. For many Gen X queers, bars and clubs were the first places they encountered community.

SPEAKER_06 41:34

Yep.

SPEAKER_05 41:34

These spaces offered anonymity, visibility, sexual freedom, and cultural expression. House music, disco, and early techno created environments where queer bodies could exist without constraint. Dance floors became utopian spaces where queer people could temporarily escape the constraints of heteronormativity. Bars and clubs also served as informal support networks. Regular poor patrons formed friendships, shared resources, and looked out for one another. Bartenders, DJs, and drag performers often acted as mentors or community leaders. In the absence of LGBTQ community centers, nightlife venues became surrogate homes. The Saint was a legendary gay nightclub known for its immersive sound and lighting, all-night dance marathons, community rituals, and fundraising for AIDS organizations. It's uh New York from 1988 to 1980 to 1988. It functioned as a chosen family hub where grief and joy coexisted. The club's architecture, a massive planetarium dome, created a sense of transcendence, allowing dancers to feel suspended outside of time and space. During the AIDS crisis, the Saint hosted benefit events, memorials, and community gatherings. It became a space where queer men could mourn collectively while also celebrating life. As one patron recalled, the Saint was where we went to feel alive when everything around us was dying. Drag shows served as intergenerational spaces where queer youth learned performance, identity, and resilience. Drag performers often acted as mentors, offering guidance on everything from makeup to coming out. Drag culture provided a language for gender fluidity and self-expression long before mainstream society acknowledged such concepts.

SPEAKER_07 43:25

Yep. I this is making me think of um the show Pose. Yes. Did you watch it? I haven't yet. Really? Oh yes, I know. It is so good. I've been thinking a lot lately about going back and rewatching it. I need to watch it. It talks about all this stuff the the drag queen mentors, the AIDS epidemic, the found family. Like it's everything you're talking about right now. It's so good.

SPEAKER_05 43:48

I have heard it's very good. Um, ballroom culture, particularly in black and Latinx communities, functioned as literal chosen families, houses such as The House of Labasia, House of Extravaganza, and House of Ninja provided mentorship, housing, artistic training, and emotional support. House mothers and fathers guided their children through the complexity of queer life, offering protection from violence, homelessness, and discrimination.

SPEAKER_07 44:16

Yep. They use that on post too. There's the mother and her children.

SPEAKER_05 44:20

I am familiar with it from RuPaul's tragedy's. Uh-huh. The House of Labasia, I hope I'm saying that right, founded in the early 70s, became one of the most influential houses in ballroom culture. It provided housing, mentorship, artistic training, and emotional support to queer and trans youth of color. For many, ballroom houses were the only stable family structure available. Ballroom culture created kinship networks that functioned as both social support systems and artistic collectives. These networks offered a sense of belonging that biological families often denied. Club Kids communities offered refuge for queer youth rejected by their families. They created chosen families based on creativity, rebellion, and mutual support. Their aesthetics, characterized by outrageous costumes, gender-bending fashion, and theatrical personas, challenged Main Street norms and expanded the possibility of queer identity. The Limelight 1988 to 1995 house in a deconstructed church. I love that. Became the epicenter of the club kids scene. It offered a space where queer youth could experiment with identity, build community, and escape the constraints of heteronormativity. Despite its chaos and controversies, the limelight provided a sense of belonging for those who had nowhere else to go. As one of the club kids recalled, we were family because we had to be. No one else wanted us. Now the oh. Goth culture? That's me. That's you. I have to bring everything back to me. Yeah. Goth culture provided a parallel refuge for queer Gen Xers. The goth scene embraced gender ambig ambigui ambiguity. I don't know how to say it. I can say it. You know what she means. Yeah, it's not working out today. Emotional intensity, nonconformity, and aesthetic experimentation. Goth clubs, concerts, and alternative spaces offered environments where queer youth could explore identity without judgment. The Bat Cave in London, though not exclusively queer, became a haven for LGBTQ youth drawn to androgyny theatricality and outsider identity. Its influence spread to U.S. goth scenes where queer Gen Xers found chosen family. Goth culture created alternative kinship networks based on shared aesthetic and emotional resonance. By the mid-90s, Gen X queer adults often lived with a hybrid family structure. Oh yeah. Internal chosen family networks formed through nightclubs, activate activism, and caregiving communities. External ally networks formed through organizations like PFLAG. The dual structure forced in crisis, creativity and resilience became the foundation for modern LGBTQ community life. It allowed Gen X queers to navigate a world that was often hostile while also building bridges to biological families and mainstream institutions. Chosen family did not replace biological family, it supplemented, challenged, and redefined it. Queer kinship is characterized by intentionally intentionality repro reprocity. I cannot say words. For Gen X, these principles became the basis of adult life. 100% agree with that. Yes. Because even though I know I feel like there's more people who call I mean I'm a little I feel like I'm a little bit different because my parents were hippies, so I do have an aunt who is not my actual aunt. Right. But she's my mom's BFF.

SPEAKER_03 48:31

Right.

SPEAKER_05 48:32

But I feel like our generation dad is more like way more prevalent than it was. I agree. Because I always had to explain it. Like she's not my real aunt, she's my mom's best friend. And they're not my real cousins, but I don't. But now you wouldn't even Yeah, you're just my kid's aunt Heather.

SPEAKER_07 48:51

Yeah. I'm just I'm just a cool animal.

SPEAKER_05 48:54

They still call me that. I love that. Yep. Yep. Uh the chosen family structure developed by Gen X queers did not remain confined to their own

What Gen X Passed Down

SPEAKER_05 49:03

cohort. Instead, they became foundational models for subsequent generations. Millennials and Gen Z inherited not only the language of Chosen Family, but also the cultural practices, community infrastructure, and political frameworks that Gen X helped establish. Subcultures served as intergenerational bridges. Younger queer people entering these spaces encountered older Gen X mentors who survived the AIDS crisis, navigated hostile political climates, and built community infrastructures from scratch. These mentors then transmitted knowledge about safer sex, queer history, political organizing, aesthetic traditions, survival strategies, community ethics.

SPEAKER_07 49:47

I love that it became like its own culture and they passed down their own.

SPEAKER_05 49:52

And that's exactly what I feel like our job as Gen X is. We're not like out there burning bras in the street. And I and everybody's always like, well, where the hell is Gen X? Why don't they I feel like that our job was to make the next generation do it. Right. Like underground. Like we built the the platform. Right. And we raised children children to get on that platform and scream it.

SPEAKER_07 50:22

Yes. And I think that the open-mindedness of a lot of Gen Xers broke a lot of stigmas and kind of helped to bring down those walls a little bit too.

SPEAKER_05 50:31

And I wonder a lot if it's because of the shared collective life that we all Yeah, we got to know lots of different people in lots of different spaces. We were grown-ups at you know, 10. You were, you know, and no other generation ever, not our parents, nobody because somebody was home when they got home, you know.

SPEAKER_07 50:52

And now parents are like so protective of their kids. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 50:55

You know, Mrs. Cleaver always had dinner for when the beef got home, and our specific tiny little generation grew up with where we just barrel and we roam the streets, and you were friends with everybody. Yeah, whoever, yeah, come on. Gotta let's roll. So I do feel like that our job is not to be the one that breaks everything. Right. Our job was to create the ones who will. Right. To lay the foundation of it. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 51:26

That's how I feel.

SPEAKER_07 51:28

I agree.

SPEAKER_05 51:28

I love your theory. Thanks.

SPEAKER_03 51:30

That's your job then. I didn't have them. I did my best.

SPEAKER_05 51:36

Uh Gen X chosen family networks became living archives preserving history that mainstream institutions ignored. Many of the caregiving practices developed during the AIDS crisis became institutionalized in LGBTU community organizations. LGBT community centers and queer health clinics adopted models of care rooted in mutual aid, peer support, and community accountability. These institutions continue to serve as chosen family infrastructure for younger generations. PFLAG2 expanded its reach, offering support to parents of transgender and non binary youth, a demographic that Gen X often lacked knowledge for during their own adolescence. The organization's evolution reflects the broader transformation of biological family structures in response to queer activism. The chosen family framework developed by Gen X influenced legal and policy debates around hospital visitation rights, domestic partnership benefits, adoption and foster care, marriage equality, and anti-discrimination protections. That's also where I think that as a generation we have excelled because I know that a lot less of us got married and a lot less of us did the traditional thing. And so we had to get rights because if you're not legally married, you don't have a right to your partner that you've been with for, you know, 25 years, which is ludicrous. It is. And so I feel like that part, you know, that's that's us also. Right. And I feel like we don't, you know, like the the ridiculousness that gay people can't adopt. First of all, they make way better parents. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. It's true. Yes. They have more money. Yes. We're just gonna strip it down to brass tacks. They have more money. If you adopt, you have to jump through massive amounts of hoops. Yes. So you really want it.

SPEAKER_07 53:51

Exactly.

SPEAKER_05 53:51

You really have to want it bad to adopt. Way better parents.

SPEAKER_07 53:56

And anytime you see any uh child abuse with uh foster kids or things like that, it's always a uh traditional sure man woman. Yep.

SPEAKER_05 54:11

Yeah. I mean, that's it's it costs so much to adopt, and you have to jump through so many hoops as a gay parent that that straight people don't have to jump through. Exactly. That you have to really want to be a parent. Therefore, they make better parents. Yes. Advocates argued that legal definitions of family must reflect the lived realities of LGBTQ communities. Uh queer kinship challenges the assumption that family is defined by biology or marriage, offering alternative models based on intentionality and care. These arguments played a crucial role in the fight for marriage equality and other legal reforms. And it also isn't just LGBTQ, because you know, if you're not married and don't have kids, like who's supposed to take care of you when you get old? Mm-hmm. Your found family. Yeah, you have to. Me. Because my sister doesn't want to. And I don't want and my I didn't have kids for a reason, so I'm not trying to put that on other people's kids. Right. While chosen family is often discussed, plus somebody's got to pull the plug.

SPEAKER_03 55:23

My sister will do it in a New York minute. Thank God, because I can't. Yeah, she'll do it, don't you worry.

SPEAKER_05 55:28

Yeah. While chosen family is often discussed in my niece will anyway, while chosen family is often discussed in structural or political terms, its emotional and psychological dimensions are equally significant. For many Gen X queer individuals, chosen family provided affirmation, safety, belonging, identity, validation, and emotional intimacy, and independence. These forms of support were particularly important for those who experienced rejection, neglect, or violence from their biological families. Chosen family played a crucial role in helping Gen X queers heal from the trauma of homophobia, transphobia, and the AIDS crisis. Community rituals such as memorials, vigils, pride marches, and drag performances provide collective spaces for mourning and resilience. Grief can be a site of political resistance, transforming loss into solidarity. Chosen family networks enable queer communities to process grief collectively, transforming trauma into activism. Chosen Family also played a central role in identity formation. For many Gen X queer individuals, chosen family networks provided the first space where they could explore gender and sexuality without constraint. These networks often models offered models of queer adulthood that were absent from mainstream culture. Drag mothers, ballroom house parents, goth club kids all served as guides helping younger queer individuals navigate the complexity of identity, community, and survival. Drag mothers played a particularly important role in Gen X chosen family networks. They provided mentorship, emotional support, and practical guidance to younger drag performers and queer youth. Drag mothers taught their children how to perform, how to navigate nightlife, how to protect themselves from violence, and how to build the community. Drag families functioned as intentional kinship networks that provided emotional, social, and material support. These networks were especially important for queer youth who had been rejected by their families. They also played a crucial role in transmission of queer cultural knowledge. They preserved traditions, aesthetics, and performance styles that might otherwise have been lost or stolen by Madonna. Their mentorship helped sustain drag culture through periods of political hostility and cultural marginalization. Chosen Family remains a central concept in contemporary LGBTQ life. Millennials and Gen Z have adopted and expanded the concept, integrating it into digital communities, polyamorous networks, queer platonic partnerships, and mutual aid groups. The COVID-19 pandemic, like the AIDS crisis before it, highlighted the importance of non-biological kinship networks in times of crisis. Younger generations have developed digital chosen families through social media, online forums, and virtual communities. These networks provide support, affirmation, and connection for queer individuals who may lack access to LGBTQ spaces. As LGBT communities continue to face new challenges from political backlash to public health crisis, the lessons of Gen X, chosen family, remain vital. They remind us that family is not defined by blood or law, but by the people who show up, care for us, and help us become who we are.

Help Resources Happy Pride And Goodbye

SPEAKER_05 58:41

And then I just wanted to give a couple three resources. Okay. Of course, the Treasure Trevor Project. Mm-hmm. Their crisis line is one eight six six-488-7386. And tax and text and chat available at the TrevorProject.org. The trans lifeline is peer support. Peer run support line for trans people, 877-565-8860. And in Canada, 877-330-6366. Okay. Sage, which is the service and advocacy for LGBTQ elders. That is support for LGBTQ adults over 50.

SPEAKER_06 59:25

I know. Look at us.

SPEAKER_05 59:27

They have a hotline, 877-360-5428. PFLAG, uh local chapters, you can find at PFLAG.org. And National Hotline, 888-843-4564. The Black Line support for Black LGBTQ plus people and survivors of violence hotline 800-604-5841. Um most communities have community, most cities have community centers offering counseling support groups and HIV testing. And you can find them, I'm sure if you just Google them. I didn't want to go through every state in the but I'm sure that if you go to these other um places, they will more than happily help you out. Yes. To find your local resources.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:28

Yes. So that is that about that was awesome. Thank you so much. Yes. I loved learning all of that, all the things that I didn't know.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:39

Yes.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:40

You did a great job. Thank you.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:42

I just, you know, I feel like Gen X was really integral in in all of that and creating that family isn't just family. Like anybody can be. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:55

You just yeah, and prior to us, people didn't come out. No. You weren't openly gay. No.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:02

No. Mm-mm. And if there were like openly gay characters on TV, they were made fun of and the butt of jokes. And I don't know. And I I just think it's also, it doesn't even have to that, you know, our generation has Friendsgiving and Galantine's Day. And you know, it is more about who you surround. And prior to like the last 10 or 15 years, have you ed had you ever heard the low contact, no contact? Right. You know, with with family. Right. You that just wasn't a term or wasn't a thing. You just didn't do that. You didn't cut people off your family off. Right. You just dealt with it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:01:50

And now you don't have to. Causes trauma and all sorts of mental health issues. You don't have to put up with it. You don't?

SPEAKER_05 1:01:57

No. You can find family in other people's families.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:03

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:05

So that's that about that. If you need help, reach out. Yes, please. And happy pride.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:11

Happy pride, everyone.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:13

We're gonna try you're doing I'm doing something related to the pride. We're gonna do pride all of June. Yes. Because fuck the man. Yeah. Because we just really need it now. We do.

unknown 1:02:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:27

Yep. So I'm not gonna go on a rant like I did last week. Um, I won't do it. You can find us on all the socials at Like Whatever Pod. Uh you can find us where all of the podcasts live. You can go to our website, likewhateverpod.com. Yep. We have all of our podcasts there. Um you can't be so hard. Send us an email about you can send us an email with your drag name to like whatever pod at gmail.com or don't like whatever. Whatever. Bye.