Like Whatever
Join Heather and Nicole as we discuss all things Gen-X with personal nostalgia, current events, and an advocacy for the rights of all humans. From music to movies to television and so much more, revisit the generational trauma we all experienced as we talk about it all. Take a break from today and travel back to the long hot summer days of the 80s and 90s. Come on slackers, fuck around and find out with us!
Like Whatever
Two Men And A Tiger
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A 400-pound white tiger on a Vegas stage, no real barrier, pyrotechnics popping, and an audience sitting just feet away. That kind of spectacle feels impossible now, which is exactly why we wanted to revisit the strange, glittery, complicated world of Siegfried and Roy and the era they helped define on the Las Vegas Strip.
We trace how two kids growing up in postwar Germany build an act that fuses classic stage magic with big cats, starting with a cruise ship job and a cheetah named Chico that Roy literally smuggles onboard. From there, the story rockets to Las Vegas headliner status, the Mirage mega-resort boom, and the creation of an iconic brand built on mystery, glamour, and danger. Along the way, we talk honestly about what was left unsaid publicly, including the way they protected their private lives in a time when being open could cost everything.
Then we get into the hard stuff: white tigers, breeding ethics, animal welfare, and why calling it “conservation” doesn’t automatically make it right. Finally, we unpack the 2003 Mirage attack involving Manticore, the stories people still argue about, and what it changed for animal acts in entertainment. Plus, because we’re us, we also detour through Gen X nostalgia like Columbia House, restaurant talk like 86 versus “68,” and a few strong opinions about modern life.
Subscribe wherever you listen, share this with your favorite Vegas or pop culture nerd, and leave us a review. What part of the Siegfried and Roy legacy do you think deserves to be remembered most?
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Gen X Catch-Up And Fall Cravings
SPEAKER_00It was so bad. Laughing, jaring, uncle, you got like whatever.
SPEAKER_03Welcome to Like Whatever, a podcast for, by, and about Gen X. I'm Nicole, and this is my BFFF, Heather. Hello. So this weekend I was watching um Pineapple Express. I no joke have seen that movie at least 50 times. I mean, that's not exaggerating. It's probably more than that. But I hadn't seen it in a couple years. And so I watched it and I figured out that's where I got the BFF. Oh. Because he um Seth Rogan and the other dude's name. One of them says, dude, you're my BFFF, best fucking friends for everyone. Ah. It's like, oh.
SPEAKER_01How about that? That's probably where I I don't think I've ever seen it. I might I don't really pay attention.
SPEAKER_03Oh my god. I laughed so much, even though I know every word to the whole thing. Oh god, it's such a funny movie.
SPEAKER_01It's pumpkin spice season. Pretty excited. I'm waiting for my tasty cake pumpkin pie.
SPEAKER_03Well, yeah. But that was a thing before pumpkin spice was like a plague.
SPEAKER_01That was I was ready. That's OG pumpkin. Yeah, that is OG pumpkin. Like you knew, and it would used to be closer to September or in September when that came out. Like now it comes out in August because I have been checking every day. I'm waiting for the memory to come up on Facebook the last time I did it. Because every year I take a picture so that I can know next year when it's time. And it should be any time now. Man, they're good.
unknownSo good.
SPEAKER_03So I was watching Jeopardy and 25 years in the restaurant industry. I was shocked I didn't know this. So I want to know if you know it. So the question was, or the answer was something about in the restaurant when a food runs out, it's 86. Um when the item is back, what number is it? Which is obviously 68. Like the guy guessed and got it right. Have you ever heard of 68? No. Me neither. Okay, good. I was like, that's not a thing. That's not a thing. First of all, you typically don't get the item back. No, not to say it, not it's the next day, and you just would never. Just have it. Pre-shift thing, you let people know you have it. Yeah. Or you don't even say anything, right? Yeah. It's just not 86 anymore. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Somebody will be like, uh, what's 86 today?
SPEAKER_03Or what or you're like 86 in the middle of a shift, and you just assume tomorrow you'll have it because you're a smart waitress and it's the next day, you go to the cook and say, Hey, did we get such and such before you put it in and then the cook's gotta find you and then you've got to change the order.
SPEAKER_01Remember when we 86 this fucking yesterday?
SPEAKER_03All right, I'm glad it's not me. I was I have never heard of 68. Like when they asked, I was like, that's not a thing. No. No. Okay, good. Good. I am so glad you've never heard of it. I was like, what rock was I under? I've never heard of that.
SPEAKER_01I know I've been around a long time in a restaurant and I've never heard that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, never.
unknownHuh.
SPEAKER_01I don't know. I'll have to ask uh one of my co-workers who worked in restaurants. We have two of them. There's two of us.
Restaurant War Stories And Customer Service
SPEAKER_01Yes. There's three of us in there that have yes.
SPEAKER_03I work for the state, and pretty much anyone that works for the state has always worked for the state, and they certainly have not worked in the restaurant industry. Yeah. Anytime I hear someone say, in my current job, I had to put out a fire, I'm like, no, you didn't. No, you did not. There was there was no fire. You've never been in the weeds before in your life. There's nothing that exists in this job that words putting out fire. You've never been weeded. You don't know what that is like. You've never worked for hours not even thinking. Like you just are in automatic pilot doing what you need to do. You have never until you get through it.
SPEAKER_01Gone an entire night and gone, I don't think I peed. Did I pee? No, I didn't. I have to go right now. No, I didn't.
SPEAKER_03And you think customers when you work for a state agency are rude?
SPEAKER_01You've never worked with the public.
SPEAKER_03No.
SPEAKER_01Everybody should have to do customer service. Everyone. Either retail or restaurants, because yes. Man, it's a whole different breed. I know when I watch these skits, there's a ton. I of course I follow all the people who do restaurant skits. And you know, there's people commenting like that never happened, and you're like, I bet it did. I as crazy as that sounds, a hundred percent that happened.
SPEAKER_03Yep, yep. I never finished watching the bear. Did you ever watch it? I never watch, I didn't finish it. I couldn't finish it, but I will say it was pretty accurate.
SPEAKER_01It's pretty accurate.
SPEAKER_03Pretty accurate to what goes on.
SPEAKER_01I mean, I can't even tell you how many times I've eaten over a trash can. Oh, yeah. Just whatever.
SPEAKER_03I never did it, but I'm a little bit germophobe. But I remember bus boys bringing plates back from tables and eating what people had left over on their plates because they're like starving college kids and they're just like, well, I didn't eat these fries. They're fine. The best though is when somebody accidentally ordered something. Oh, I know. And then the cooks would put it over for the waitresses, and it was like vultures on a dead car.
SPEAKER_01You don't even know. Like, yeah, the words this is extra don't even get fully out. They're like seagulls, like just you don't even have to wash the plate.
SPEAKER_03No.
SPEAKER_01Not that you're like, well, I guess turn around and turn back and it's all gone.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, we waitresses did appreciate free food.
SPEAKER_01Man, they come out of the woodwork too. Like everywhere. Hostesses, everything.
SPEAKER_03Oh, yeah. Everybody people are there army working that night show. What? Is that is that dead? Is that that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Good times. Oh man, it's not.
Columbia House Nostalgia And AI Ethics
SPEAKER_03Oh, guess what I heard today? I did not even know it was still in business. But Columbia House is going out of business. I saw that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I think it's been like 71 years or something. I don't know, but you can order up until September 15th. I'm gonna have to go and I owe them so much money. I wonder if you could so many pennies. I wonder if you can get stuff for a penny on September 15th, because then you're not obligated to anything.
SPEAKER_01I mean, what could they possibly be giving you? I it's gotta be CDs, right? I don't even have a CD player. I don't either. I've no idea. I'll have to look. We'll have to investigate to go on a Columbia house, order some shit for a penny.
SPEAKER_03I also saw this morning that the drummer of Z Z Top passed away.
SPEAKER_01I saw that yesterday. I can't remember. It's been a weird week. A lot of a lot of celebrities have passed this week.
SPEAKER_03They have.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03A lot of just a lot of like the man who founded ESPN passed away. It's like a lot of randomness this week. The um actress Peyton Hayden Hayden Petonary. Yes. She uh it's funny because I never watched it. I knew of her, of course. I never watched anything she was in now, but I recognized everything that she did as a child actor. I didn't even realize that was her. And can I just say that if we are going to start using AI for entertainment purposes, film shows, can we just AI the kids and stop traumatizing all these little kids? Because name a childhood actor that has not either been through it or is going through it or is dead.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Unless they got out of the industry.
SPEAKER_01But the ones who have stayed with it, it's well, um Blossom, I think, did pretty good.
SPEAKER_03She left it for a while. She did, and she's kind of an exception because she's like uber super duper smart. She is ridiculously smart. She has like a PhD in physics or something.
SPEAKER_01Increasing microbiology. Oh, that's it. That's it. That's why uh on her character on the Big Bang theory is a microbiologist. Oh, okay. I'd never watched that. Yeah. It's because they wanted her expertise. She didn't know what she was talking about.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, she could add lib. Yeah. The writers didn't have to do that.
SPEAKER_01Or a neurobiologist, a neurobiologist. She's a neurobiologist. Either way. Yeah. Yeah. She's smart. She's an exception to the rule. So was uh she's not a neurobiologist, but she's uh some type of scientist. Um darling from Roseanne.
SPEAKER_03Oh yeah. Yeah, she was on the Big Bang also. The lead singer of offspring has a PhD.
SPEAKER_01Good to know. I do not. Yep. I'm never gonna have one.
SPEAKER_03I know. It was a goal of mine for a while. Like when I was in my 30s and I earned my master's. That was the goal eventually.
SPEAKER_01Seems like a lot of work.
SPEAKER_03It's a lot of work, and by the time I get it done, I plan on being retired in 14 years.
SPEAKER_01So what's the point? Yeah, exactly. I could call you Dr. Nicole.
SPEAKER_03Well, that's what I wanted.
SPEAKER_01Was to be called doctor. We just have to get famous doing this and get an honorary doctorate. Oh we can get it from UD since we didn't earn money. I don't I think I still owe them credits. I think if I went in there, they'd be like, mmm, yeah. You owe us back some credits. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Thank God college was cheap back then.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03It was like $3,000 a semester. And that included living on campus. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01It was nothing.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, because when I broke that contract, because they were paying for me to go to school to become a math teacher, and I didn't make it the year, um, or even one year. But when I owed for that year, it was only like $3,500 or something. And we lived on campus, had meal plans. I took full full-time course loads. Like, yeah, that's crazy. Yeah, it's like a hundred times more than at least. Maybe a million times more. It might be. I don't know. It might be. I haven't checked recently.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_03Well, part of my job is paying for kids to go to college, but then you would know. It's a million times more.
SPEAKER_01I I believed you. I don't. Well, we have a fun one today. I think. Kind of. Kind of yes, kind of no. Oh. Yeah.
Where To Find Like Whatever
SPEAKER_01But um, do you want to do your little spiel about the oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Uh, like, share, rate, review. Uh, find us wherever you listen to podcasts. Yeah. Find us on all all the socials at like whatever pod. All of them. Uh we have an email, like whateverpod at gmail.com, and we have a website like whateverpod.com where you can find all of our episodes and download them all and listen to all of them. All of them. You can.
SPEAKER_01They're all there.
SPEAKER_03We're getting close to our hundredth. I know.
SPEAKER_01We're trying to come up with a good good idea.
SPEAKER_03I've been trying to think and nothing feels good enough. I know.
SPEAKER_01I know. Stay tuned. See what happens. Yeah. Hopefully we don't forget.
SPEAKER_03We probably will. We'll celebrate our 102nd.
SPEAKER_01Well, I put it in. I'm like, oh shit, that was the 100th. Oh no. What happened? We'll figure it out.
SPEAKER_03Oh well.
SPEAKER_01We'll take suggestions too. There you go. Thinks of anything fun.
Origins On A Cruise Ship
SPEAKER_01All right. So today we're gonna fuck around and find out about Siegfried and Roy.
SPEAKER_03That's so funny. I just got those two clam or two snails. Snails. And I've been thinking trying to think of names for them, and Siegfried and Roy was almost one that I picked. Well, I still haven't decided. Maybe you'll convince me by the end of this.
SPEAKER_01I got the idea the other day because um one of the podcasts I listened to had done an ep had done like a four-part series on them, and I was like, you know what? I mean, obviously mine will not be as in-depth as theirs. Right. But I was like, I totally have forgotten about them. I know. Their story is rather fascinating. Like it is like I'll bet it is. Yeah. Yeah. So let's get it going here. Yeah. Siegfried Fischbacher entered the world in 1939 in Rosenham, Germany, during the final years of World War II. His childhood was shaped by scarcity, rationing, and the emotional fallout of a nation in ruins. His father, a painter, drafted into the war, returned traumatized and distant. Siegfried grew up in a household where silence was common and affection was rare. His father had a lot of trouble. His father was a Nazi, so Damn. Yeah, he had Yep. That's wild. Yeah. Magic became his escape. A borrowed library book on illusions introduced him to sleight of hand, misdirection, and the idea that Wander could be engineered. He practiced obsessively, performing for neighbors and classmates, discovering early that he had a gift not just for tricks, but for showmanship. Roy Horn, born in 1944 in Nordenham, Germany, grew up in a similar fractured landscape. His mother worked multiple jobs to support the family, and Roy spent much of his childhood outdoors. My accent is really coming in on that, Roy. I really hear it. I hear the Sussex County in that. Animals fascinated him. He felt drawn to their intelligence, their unpredictability, their presence. He formed bonds with creatures that others feared or dismissed. Where Siegfroyd was meticulous, Roy, Roy, was instinctive. Sigfro studied illusions and Roy studied animals. Their personalities diverged, but their early lives were shaped by the same forces war, scarcity, and the need to create something beautiful out of the rubble. In the late 50s, both men found work on the TS Bremen, a German cruise ship. Siegfried performed magic for passengers while Roy worked as a waiter and steward. Their paths crossed when Roy approached Siegfried after a show and asked a question that would change both of their lives. What if you added a live animal? Roy's suggestion was not theatrical. He had already smuggled a cheetah named Chico aboard the ship. Yes, you've heard me. Wow. That's ambitious. The story has become legend. He befriended the cheetah at a zoo, convinced the handlers to let him take the animal, and somehow managed to sneak Chico onto the vessel.
SPEAKER_03Alright, so I thought you were gonna say that he convinced the cheetah to leave the zoo.
SPEAKER_01Come on, Chico. I'll show you the world. I'm the king of the world. Um he smuggled him in a laundry bag.
SPEAKER_03A bag?
SPEAKER_01A bag. I mean, I don't think cheetahs are really that big. I mean, they're big.
SPEAKER_03Claws and teeth.
SPEAKER_01Right. I mean, if he just stretched a little bit, he would maybe he sedated him. Oh. I don't know. But he smuggled him in. He's gonna go over the head with a club.
SPEAKER_03The breadphones don't stop.
SPEAKER_01The cheetah lived in the ship's hold, and Roy cared for him daily. Chico escaped at least twice. Once he wandered into the ship's laundry area, startling crew members.
SPEAKER_03He was looking for his bag.
SPEAKER_01Another time he slipped out during docking and had to be coaxed back by Roy. These escapes highlighted the risks inherent in Roy's approach to animals, an approach based on trust, intuition, and emotional connection. It's not a good way to do it, but you know.
SPEAKER_03That's hilarious.
SPEAKER_01Should probably train final times.
SPEAKER_03Just go to the zoo. I know could you imagine coming home with me?
SPEAKER_01Could you imagine trying to sneak anything onto a cruise ship?
SPEAKER_03I wonder if the Salisbury Zoo would let me take a um Cappy Bear home. I mean, I think you can just buy Cappy Bear. You can. It's legal to own them in Delaware. I have done the research. I would love to one day own one, but they are a lot of work. It's like having a baby. Like they need a lot of attention. They need a pool.
SPEAKER_01They need I want a mere cat. I'm sure they're also a lot of work. Or groundhog, not a groundhog, uh, a prairie dog. Oh man, they're cute.
SPEAKER_03They are cute. But yeah, I I at least one day need to go like swim with capy bears or something.
SPEAKER_01Like I know you can. There's a place down here, it's not cappy bears. It's um otters. You can swim with otters.
SPEAKER_03Otters scare me a little bit. I'd be afraid they'd try to take my eyes out or something. I don't think that they're nice.
SPEAKER_01I think these ones are nice. They also do, and I've been wanting to do this, and I need to look into it more. The goat yoga and the kangaroo yoga. I kind of want to do the kangaroo yoga because I kind of want to just hang out with a kangaroo. Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_03Mm-hmm. They can be violent too, though. I know. I watch ridiculous.
SPEAKER_01They do they're doing yoga. I feel like they're zen. They got the zen kangaroo. Okay. Siegfried was stunned by it but intrigued. Their first performance together involved Siegfried's illusion and Roy's cheetah, creating a spectacle unlike anything the passengers had ever seen. The act was a sensation. The ship's captain, initially furious, eventually embraced the duo's success. Siegfried and Roy were born, not through careful planning, but through risk, instinct, and the belief that magic could be expanded beyond human boundaries. After leaving the cruise ship, Siegfried and Roy toured Europe, performing in nightclubs, theaters, and cabarets. Their act evolved, incorporating more animals and increasingly elaborate illusions. They became known for blending danger and beauty, creating performances that felt both intimate and grand.
SPEAKER_03It really was genius for the time.
SPEAKER_01I mean, circuses were big then and they had animals, but they weren't like making animals.
SPEAKER_03But it wasn't just like two guys doing a magic show.
SPEAKER_01Magic show with a cheetah. By the late 1960s, they caught the attention of American producers. Las Vegas was the appetite for a spectacle.
SPEAKER_03Still is.
SPEAKER_01Became the ideal home for their act. They performed at the Stardust, the Lido, and other major venues, gradually building a reputation as the most innovative magicians in the city. Their partnership deepened, though they never publicly defined their relationship. They lived together, worked together, and built a life intertwined personally and professionally. In an era when homosexuality was stigmatized, especially in entertainment, Siegfried and Royd maintained privacy. Their sexuality became an open secret, acknowledged quietly within the industry, but never publicly discussed.
SPEAKER_03I was thinking about that when you said that um Siegfried's dad was a Nazi. I was like, oof, that must have been very stressful for him growing up with a Nazi dad. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01By law, he has to that and that time in general.
SPEAKER_03I mean Yeah, that time in general too, but in Germany?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Las Vegas was a city built on fantasy, but it was also a place where image
Mirage Stardom And White Tiger Controversy
SPEAKER_01mattered. Siegfried and Roy's image was one of mystery, elegance, and otherworldly glamour.
SPEAKER_00Sure.
SPEAKER_01In 1989, Steve Wynne opened the Mirage, the first mega resort on the Las Vegas Strip. It was a billion-dollar gamble designed to redefine the city's identity. The Mirage featured a tropical theme, a volcano, waterfalls, and a still does. It doesn't. They took the volcano. They closed the mirage. I'll get to that.
unknownDamn it.
SPEAKER_01The Mirage featured a tropical theme, a volcano, waterfalls, and a level of luxury that has never been seen before. That Las Vegas is in trouble.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think Atlantic City is too.
SPEAKER_01It's always in a state of trouble.
SPEAKER_03Well, that's because it literally like borders the ghetto of New Jersey. Like it's literally like the casinos are on one side of the street. And the ghetto is literally on the street. On the other side of the street, there are no nothing between it. That was another thing I saw this morning on the news. I saw so many good things on the news this morning. They were at Atlantic City. And did you know that it has the oldest boardwalk? I did. And also the longest. I did. And when it was first established, the most dangerous. Yes. I only go on it during the day. Yes. Um yeah, but when they first made it, it was because they were getting too much sand in their carriages and something else. So they built it and it was in pieces, and they would pick it up in the winter and store it.
SPEAKER_01That's smart because otherwise you have to just replace it every day. Exactly.
SPEAKER_03But now it's five miles long. I didn't know it was that long.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um, they they have almost all but replaced Ocean City's boardwalk with concrete. There's just certain parts of it that are actual boardwalk. And a few years ago, they pulled up parts of it to redo them or whatever. And you can buy pieces of like the old boardwalk. Yeah. I never did because I hate Ocean City's boardwalk. Yeah, me too. Stupid. This is much better. Yeah. Yes. Not as long, but yes. It's much cheaper, also. Uh Wynne needed a headliner who could match the resort's ambition. Siegfried and Roy were the obvious choice. Their show became the centerpiece of the Mirage, a multimillion dollar production combining magic, choreography, pyronotechnics, and live big cats. The Mirage Theater was custom built for them. It featured advanced stage technology, hidden lifts, and elaborate set pieces. The show ran for more than a decade, attracting millions of visitors and became the most successful magic act in history. Siegfried and Roy were not just performers, they were symbols of the Mirage's identity. Their presence elevated the resort, making it synonymous with spectacle and luxury. And you know there was no barrier between the audience and the stage where cats were just hanging out.
SPEAKER_03I think it's crazy that they built an entire theater for them and they only were there 10 years.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I mean, uh yeah, supposedly there was like you were literally within like feet of the big cats.
SPEAKER_03And that was probably some of the draw that brought people on.
SPEAKER_01You know, any I imagine any of those shows, it's the the element of like somebody could get eaten any minute now. And they did. Yay. Central to Siegfried and Roy's act were they're white tigers. These animals became iconic, representing purity, mystery, and exotic allure. But behind the beauty was a complex and controversial reality. White tigers are not naturally occurring species. I did not know that. I did. They are the result of a genetic mutation known as leucism, which affects pigmentation. To produce white tigers consistently, breeders often rely on inbreeding, which can lead to serious health issues because they apparently all came from one cat. Crossed eyes, spinal deformities, kidney problems, immune deficiencies, and a high infant mortality. Animal rights groups criticized white tiger breeding, arguing that it prioritized aesthetics over animal welfare. Zoos began phasing out white tiger breeding programs. Siegfried and Roy defended their practices, insisting their animals were healthy and well cared for well cared for. They argued their breeding program was responsible and that their tigers were ambassadors for conservation. The truth is complex. Their animals were undeniably well cared for, living in luxurious habitats and receiving constant attention. But the broader controversy surrounding white tiger breeding remains unresolved because they shouldn't have been there at all.
SPEAKER_03Well, that and the uh best of the best are the ones who were living these lives. What did Siegfried really do with the ones that had twisted spines and all those other things? Probably euthanized it. I have no doubt.
SPEAKER_01That's what they do when those breeding situations Yeah. I mean, that could be said of any breeding of any plus you can't say it's conservation of something you made up. Yeah. It doesn't occur naturally. It's not a it's not a thing. No. So it's not conserving when you made it up. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So there you go.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, but you throw words like that out, and people are like, oh, okay.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah, you're I see. They are living and they did live fantastic lives. Absolutely. Except they weren't tigers, and tigers want a tiger. And so even if then like it was funny because on the the podcast I was listening to, the one was like, Yeah, they lived in luxury, but they weren't ever allowed to leave. And she said to the other host, I mean, if you could just if they said you lived in this beautiful mansion and have all this food and just do whatever you want, but you can never leave, would you do it? And I was like, Yes. Absolutely. I would be a captive tiger tomorrow. Absolutely. If you said all I had to do was lay in this beautiful uh and I have my own pool, they had their own pool. They had underground Saturday.
SPEAKER_03I didn't leave the house at all. I mean, I I would love to never leave the house, especially now that we have like DoorDash. There's no reason to leave your house anymore.
SPEAKER_01You never have to grocery delivery. I am living in the greatest time, and I have this job. Yeah. Where I have I cannot work from home, unfortunately. And I have to leave the house. And it's a sad thing.
SPEAKER_03I only have to go to the office three days a week, and I stay home as much as I can. And it's funny, my friend, she's like the total opposite of me, because it's it's a rough day for her if she had to be alone. She's like, I just I'm afraid I'm gonna get lonely, and I'm just, you know, just did nothing, just around the house. I'm like, oh, those are the best days ever. And she looks at me like you're crazy. I don't even know what it's like to be lonely.
SPEAKER_01I I don't ever feel I am my cats. Why would I be lonely? I don't think I'm capable of feeling lonely. I don't think so either, for me. I don't think I just am alone. I don't, I don't and it's not even like I enjoy my own company. I don't, but I just I like TikTok or whatever. I just don't want to do anything, but I have to leave my house. Yeah, yeah. I need to find a post office job that I can just do from they have them work from home jobs.
SPEAKER_03But I need somebody to give me a mansion and tell me I can never leave. For real.
SPEAKER_01Like like a beauty and the beast situation. Yeah. She had all them books. Yeah. She didn't suffer. She had she talked to the cops and the saucers and stuff. Exactly. Like me talking to my guests. Yeah. Same thing. Same. You can't be lonely.
SPEAKER_03They make as much sense, if not more, than most people that I know see.
SPEAKER_01You can't be lonely if the dishes talk to you. Yes.
unknownYep.
SPEAKER_03I even accidentally, because I changed my screensaver at work today and I put Roxy, my new kitten, on there. Uh-huh. And I closed the window and her picture popped up. I was like, oh, you're so cute. Like I was talking to her. I'm like, oh my God. I really do. I am a crazy cat lady. It's official.
SPEAKER_01That's all right. Yeah, I can't. I mean, I like to just sometimes I just eat I just ate mashed potatoes the other night just for dinner.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I've been eating Lucky Charms for dinner. Oh, yeah. I'm almost out. Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_01I like buttered bread for dinner. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03An English muffin. Now that is high society. That is high society.
SPEAKER_01Especially if you put sugar and cinnamon on it.
SPEAKER_03Sometimes I just snack like and it'll go in and out of like healthy or not, like all the yogurt, and then I'll have some potato chips, and then I'll eat some like a little bit of fresh fruit, just a little bit. And then a granola bar, and then ice cream. And it's just like just little bits of each. I just kind of graze throughout the night. The air fryer was a game changer in life. God, I love my air. It's a game changer in life. You can actually heat up leftovers and they taste good in the air fryer.
SPEAKER_01French fries, fries, pizza. Anything. Yes. That's it's truly an amazing invention. It really, really. What a time to be alive. You don't have to leave your house.
SPEAKER_03You have air fryers. Have you made mozzarella sticks in yours?
SPEAKER_01Yes. So good. Yep. What a time to be alive.
SPEAKER_03And now almost everything frozen comes with air fryer directions on it. It's awesome.
SPEAKER_01So much faster than a few different things. You just have to cool it.
unknownI know.
SPEAKER_01So much faster than a microwave. It is.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Mm-hmm. And healthier. You're not putting all those healthier rays. It's just blowing hot air in there.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_03It's not putting microwaves in there.
SPEAKER_01There's that later.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_01Despite their reputation for discipline and control, Siegfried and Roy experienced several incidents involving escaped big cats. In the 1980s, a tiger escaped from their training facility and wandered into a residential neighborhood. The animal was eventually recaptured without injury, but the incident raised concerns about safety protocols. Another escape involved a tiger breaking free backstage at the mirage, causing a brief shutdown of the theater. Handler secured the animal quickly, but the episode highlighted the risks inherent in working with large predators. Chico the Cheetah, Roy's Cheetah, escaped multiple times during their early career, including the incident aboard the TS Bremen. Safety protocols at the Mirage were extensive, involving multiple handlers, reinforced enclosures, and emergency procedures. However, the sheer number of animals involved made absolute control impossible, and they didn't separate the audience. Animal behaviorists warned that even well-trained big cats could act unpredictably, especially under performance stress. Any wild animal can. I mean, and you think about it, like people say, you probably weren't allowed to have flash photography. You wouldn't think so. You couldn't have flash photography anywhere. Anywhere, no. But like, I mean, there's audience there, like me.
SPEAKER_03Cheering, clapping, love music, the pyro pyrotechnics or whatever. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01What if one was like brought an elk call or something and was like, whatever elks say. Then you got it, then you got a a tiger.
SPEAKER_03Somebody had a steak in their pocket from the buffet.
SPEAKER_01From the buffet, they brought it in.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01He smells steak. And he ripped you to shreds trying to find it. Chicken? I mean, anything. I know how the dog is when I have something in my pocket. He's unrelenting. And he's only 15 pounds. Not 400.
Diary Postcards And Switching To Vapes
SPEAKER_01Uh, let us take this moment to do your um diarrhea.
SPEAKER_03I was just thinking about it too.
SPEAKER_02Because I repeat your life, we're lucky and through her teenage bike.
SPEAKER_03Um, all right. So for um Nicole's diary, today is October 19th, 1985. Apparently, my Nanan, I remember this boyfriend Ed, and they did used to travel a lot. So Nanan and Ed went to Texas about a week ago, and then I happened to have Oh, yes. A postcard from Blanco, Texas. Dated October 22nd, 1985. So, yes, it does line right up. Um hi Nicole. Spent two days in Mexico. Hope to go back. Another day later, we walked over the border. See you when we get back. Love, Nan, and Ed. That's good. I know. And like she actually sent me a postcard. Let's see, the stamp was 14 cents.
SPEAKER_01Wow. I have no idea what postcard stamps are now. You'd think I'd know that, but I don't.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Nobody sends postcards anymore. Oh, you'd be actually surprised. Oh. And then you have to remember where I am. I have like my old like pre-911 address. RD2 bucks 751. That's funny. It took a lot to get used to changing that when it went over to uh yeah. Oh, that was only part of it. Oh my god. So oh, there were still more on that day, October 19th. Oh god, we didn't even do it all. This one's fun too. Yesterday I went to see Better Off Dead with Stacey and her dog.
SPEAKER_00Oh that is cute.
SPEAKER_01I know. Wow. I love that movie. That is a good movie. Yeah.
unknownOkay. Okay.
SPEAKER_01I was gonna say something. I don't remember what it was. Oh, I did want to interject because I just pulled it out. I have switched to vaping. I meant to say it up top and I forgot. I have made the transition.
SPEAKER_03Which absolutely floors me.
SPEAKER_01I have been smoking cigarettes since I was 12 years old.
SPEAKER_03Not only has she been smoking cigarettes since she was 12 years old, but she has been saying since she was 12 years old that she will never quit smoking.
SPEAKER_01She's gotta die of something anyway. I mean, technically, this is probably gonna kill me faster. Which is also a reason. Because they don't well, I asked the lady at the out at the cigarette outlet. I said, I mean, so what's the deal? Is it really and she was she was pretty anti-vaping for somebody who works in a cigarette outlet. She was like, at least we know what's in cigarettes. No, we don't. And we don't know what's in this. There's so many chemicals in cigarettes. Well, but we know what the chemicals are, and this they don't. They don't know because there's no long-term studies on this as opposed to smoking. Either way, I mean really it doesn't matter because anyway, I'm gonna die of something. Might as well oh shit. Um so I'm I'm on I can't decide how I feel about it. I like it because you can just smoke anytime, anywhere, anyhow. Like, I don't have to like but and you're not like taking the 10 minutes to smoke a cigarette, and like you can like take a pup and do something else, and like you could just it's not um is it flavored? No, it's cigarette flavored. Well, I asked, she was like, we don't have any of the flavored ones, and I was like, I just want it to taste like cigarettes. And she was like, I got you. This one tastes like cigarettes, and it does. Not camels. Oh. If maybe if camel came out with one, if you're listening, Camel.
SPEAKER_03That would definitely kill you. Are you RJ Reynolds?
SPEAKER_01Is Camel RJ Reynolds? I don't remember which one's which, but I think so, because Marl is um no, I think Marlboro is RJ Reynolds. I think Camel is uh Winston-Salem.
SPEAKER_03Is it?
SPEAKER_01I don't know.
SPEAKER_03Remember when there were Winston-Salem cigarettes?
SPEAKER_01There still are, yeah, I know. But I think Camel is let's find out. Okay. Let's Google that.
SPEAKER_03Well, they still make Virginia Slim. That's the right button.
SPEAKER_01Uh it is RJ Reynolds that makes the camels in Winston-Salem, North Carolina. And the Marlboro is a Philip Morris. Yes. That is correct. So now we got that.
SPEAKER_03When I was in college, I smoked the old lady um Virginia Slim 120s. It was like a straw. Yeah, it's like a stir, like a swizzle stick.
SPEAKER_01Swizzle thick. They were very long and thin.
SPEAKER_03Very, very thin. Hilarious. I'm amazed that they didn't just go poof when you lit them up.
SPEAKER_01But you remember capris? Oh yeah. They were little too. Yeah. They were lady cigarettes.
SPEAKER_03Ladies, I was a lady. That's my idea. Yeah. With the menthol. Especially when we went to UD. When the menthols. Especially a lady when we went. Yeah. Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_01You sure were. I have always smoked the camels.
SPEAKER_03Mm-hmm. You have.
SPEAKER_01Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_03Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01So maybe they should make them.
SPEAKER_03Did they still make those ones where you squish them and they turn into menthols?
SPEAKER_01Which it's because they're not allowed to call them lights anymore. Like it's not camel lights anymore. And it's not Marlboro lights, so it's the color of the container. So camel blues are the camel lights, but camel crushes come in a blue box. So you have to watch the person who's getting them for you because they could give you the wrong one and then you're stuck with the crushes.
SPEAKER_03Don't you hate it when people act like they don't know anything about cigarettes? Like you work in the Wawa.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Every time somebody orders, you don't have to be like, what? Which one do they?
SPEAKER_01Well, now the Wawa just has numbers, so you just tell them what number you want.
SPEAKER_03Not mine.
SPEAKER_01Oh, mine does.
SPEAKER_03I was late for work today because I went into the frickin' Wawa. And the lady that waits on me all the time, I walk up, I'm in a rush because I'm all like I should be there at 7.30, and I'm only like a minute from work, but it's 7.30 right now. And I'm like two pack two packs Marlboro ultra-lates. And she gets them out, scans them, and goes, ID, please.
SPEAKER_01And I was like, You gotta be kidding me.
SPEAKER_03Are you fucking serious right now? Like, and I'm always very, very, very sympathetic to that because I did waitress and it is annoying when somebody fights you on the ID thing. But do I really look like I'm under 18?
SPEAKER_01First of all, 20, 21. You have to be 21 to buy under one. Same date. Either way.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01You're nowhere near either.
SPEAKER_03Also, you have sold me so many packs of cigarettes. I know you know who I am. All right. So I had to go out to my car.
SPEAKER_01Oh man.
SPEAKER_03And then by the time I came back in, the line was like super long. But they opened another register. So I went up to him and I asked him, and she comes around with them. She's like, I have them right here. Well, if you would have sold them to me the first time, bitch, then we would be done. This would be at work right now.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I used to smoke my favorites. Oh, and do you know what else they have in the cigarette outlet that I did not buy because I thought this is gonna go horribly wrong.
SPEAKER_03All I can think of are like weed products, but I know that wasn't it.
SPEAKER_01They had cloves. Shut up. I won't shut up, but I knew that buying a full pack of cloves, I would smoke the full pack of cloves and probably be dead.
SPEAKER_03Your lungs would probably just disintegrate at this point. Yeah, like that.
SPEAKER_01That's why I said to her, I was like, oh, those, oh, are those cloves? And she said yes.
SPEAKER_03Or maybe the oil would line your I don't know.
SPEAKER_01Either way, it was gonna go horribly wrong. So I did not buy them. But I might go back and get them.
SPEAKER_03I wonder who smokes them now. I don't know.
SPEAKER_01Maybe rave kids. 90s clubs. Do they call Raves? 90s clubs kids. Anyway, so I I've I've I've been now, I have been without a physical cigarette since uh Friday.
SPEAKER_03That blows my mind. Yeah. I don't even know who you are anymore.
SPEAKER_01I don't either. I mean, I'm still smoking.
SPEAKER_03It doesn't count.
SPEAKER_01It does count, goddamn it.
SPEAKER_03Alright, well, if it counts to you, but it doesn't count to me.
SPEAKER_01Fine. Anyway, who knows if they're healthier? Probably not, but I get to smoke anywhere. So it's even better. All right. Yes. Back to Siegfried.
The Night Manticore Attacked Roy
SPEAKER_01Yes. On October 3rd, 2003, during a performance at the Mirage, Roy Horn was attacked by a 400-pound white tiger named Manticore. I remember this. The incident occurred during Roy's 59th birthday show. Which is very sad. The sequence of events remains disputed. Some witnesses claim Roy stumbled, causing Manticore to become confused. Others say Roy used an unusual command. Siegfried and Roy later stated Manticore sensed Roy was having a stroke and attempted to drag him to safety. But it's even more ridiculous because they said that he used his teeth to relieve the pressure.
SPEAKER_03Oh my god.
SPEAKER_01That is the story they went. Whether or not, like I I dou I doubt I don't think that they really believe that, but maybe they just told themselves that to make themselves feel, especially Roy, because like Well, it is bad PR too.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Because at this point they're up there in age, so they probably have an older crowd, and older people I don't think want to watch people get made. Mauled by a tiger. Yeah, I don't think so.
SPEAKER_01I'm older people.
SPEAKER_03Well, I'm thinking blue hairs. He did have a stroke after the tiger mauled him. And the tiger could have sensed that he was having a stroke.
SPEAKER_01I think he had the stroke because the tiger mauled him.
SPEAKER_03Oh.
SPEAKER_01Yes. I think it was it was directly related and not a prior event. Okay. Manticore grabbed Roy by the neck and dragged him off stage. Handlers rushed in using fire extinguishers to separate the tiger from Roy.
SPEAKER_03That was their protection?
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_03That was their best plan of a tiger tranquilizer. Because they just grabbed It was probably just the fire extinguishers hanging on the wall.
SPEAKER_01Yes. There was no. There should be tasers. They the the the they did another not too long ago. One of the handlers came out because they kept the whole thing tight-lipped. And of course, you know, Steve Wynne owns the Mirage. And they had passed all the US Day A inspections and safety inspections. So but there was no barrier between the big cats and the crowd. So you know Steve Wynne was just paying these people off and just being like, well, you know, move it on. So when this incident happened, they investigated it, but of course it was no fault. And you know, but I mean, come on. It's your fucking fault that you have tigers on a stage. Anytime you get bit by a tiger, it's your fault. Yeah. There's no circumstance in which a tiger is at fault for biting you.
SPEAKER_03No. None. And we'll never know the real story of what happened that day because anybody that works there has an NDA and well or you're gonna swim with the fishes if you open your mouth.
SPEAKER_01Well, that was that this guy, um, apparently the fishes. No, but apparently he had a lot of PTSD after this incident and went on to become an alcoholic and he didn't see his kids, and he suffered a lot and kept it all in because they weren't allowed to talk about it. But he has come out and said that it was uh apparently. I guess Mant some speculation is is because it was. His 59th birthday thing. He was amped up any, like it was, you know, there was a lot of celebrities in the audience, and it was like extra, and it was just him on stage with Manticore. This handler apparently told him prior to that Manticore was not the best choice for this. That Manticore had not been trained very well, and apparently Manticore was not the best option. He wasn't very docile, and um, so this guy kind of held said he felt a lot of responsibility for it because Manticore shouldn't have been on the stage. So I guess Roy either made a wrong move and then tried to correct, and well, he said the first problem was Manticore missed his mark. And that's where it started to go wrong. And then I guess when Roy tried to correct him, he bopped him on the nose with the microphone. And I'm assuming tigers don't care for that, which I don't know who would, in front of all those people. And they're like, hey, there's celebrities. Yeah, there's celebrities here, and you just bopped me on the nose.
SPEAKER_03I'm not a kid.
SPEAKER_01Not cool, bro. I'm already inbred. I don't belong. I'm a freak of nature. And now you're hitting me because I didn't make make the piece of tape that I don't even know what tape is, because I'm a tiger. And you're mad because I was like an inch past this piece of tape.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, see, something that delicate though, you just shouldn't be doing it. Like no.
SPEAKER_01Roy suffered severe injuries, including massive blood loss, a crushed windpipe, and partial paralysis. The USDA investigated the incident but found no clear evidence of wrongdoing. Oh, I wonder why. Yeah. Cha-ching. The Mirage conducted its own internal review, which remains largely confidential. Also, to this day, which this I find in fucking insane. That was it was recorded that night, and that has never been seen. Nowhere, no how. It's not on the black web. It is nowhere. There is nowhere. Nowhere. That's pretty amazing. And at this point, how it has not come out by now. Steve Wynn had to have made that disappear. How nobody like Wow. The fact that it was recorded and then has never been seen. Has never been seen. Probably Steve Wynn's probably seen it. They had to see it. Siegfried and Roy has probably seen it. I'm sure they burned that. You know some people have seen it.
SPEAKER_03But if there was a copy out there in this day and age, it would be out. It would be out.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. It has never been seen. They had destroyed it by our eyes. Um animal behaviorists argued Manticore's actions were consistent with predatory behavior. Siegfried and Roy insisted the tiger was trying to help Roy. The truth may never be known. I mean, I think the truth is out there. I think that we know that the tiger was not trying to help Roy. I think the tiger got mad. I mean, because here's my thing about it. That tiger could have killed him.
SPEAKER_03Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01Just right there. Right then.
SPEAKER_03Especially if the only thing they were fighting him with was fire extinguishers.
SPEAKER_01I mean, he had no chance against a 400-pound tiger. Roy was a little fellow too. You weren't he didn't. Manticourt was mad and was trying to tell him a lesson. I mean, otherwise he would not have. He's like, You want to fight, bitch? Let's go. Let's go. And but they said because he was dragging him back to his lair, he was, you know, trying to help him. And he just didn't want to murder in front of all those people. I I guess. Too many witnesses. Yeah. He missed his tape and was like, that's the murder tape. I don't know. But a 400-pound tiger, if it wants to, absolutely. It's you're dead in seconds.
SPEAKER_03Well, if it bit him in the neck. Yeah. And he almost bled out. It kind of did kill him. Try to.
SPEAKER_01Well, apparently it did. I guess he was dead on the table. And they brought him back.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Did they use magic? They did. It was an illusion. You were dead and now you're not. Take that, Chris Angel. That's what I would have said if I was Roy. Your illusion suck. Chris Angel. David Blaine. Have you come back from the dead?
SPEAKER_03How many times have you died?
SPEAKER_01Did you get mauled by a tiger and then showed back up? No, you sure as shit didn't. I fucking did. Take that, David Copperfield. Stick that in your Statue of Liberty and smoke it. I don't think he talked trash. I don't know. I can't say that he didn't. He might have called.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, you don't know that.
SPEAKER_01I don't. I wasn't there. Roy's recovery was slow and difficult. He regained limited mobility and speech, but never returned to full health. Siegfried became Roy's caretaker, supporting him through years of rehabilitation. Their partnership deepened. They appeared publicly several times, including a final performance in 2009, but their career as performers were effectively over. Manticore lived out his life at their private sanctuary. The Mirage moved on, shifting its focus to other acts. And you know, the first thing he did say is as they were wheeling him out, I guess he could talk a little bit, and he said, Don't let them put him down. Which I, you know, all joking aside, it is very sad that he got mauled by a tiger. It's not funny. It's it's very sad. But but I mean, you you fucked around and you found out, like, you know, it's it and it is it it is nice that they didn't put the cat down. That he was very adamant about them not well today they would for sure. Oh, they would have done it right there on the stage. Oh, yeah. They would have they would have shot the cat right there. Yeah, for sure. And that's unfortunate. And this is why we shouldn't fuck around with fucking wild animals, as I have a bird in my house. A tiny dinosaur lives in my home.
SPEAKER_03How can you not see yourself as a cat whisperer when you made friends with a cheetah at the zoo and said, Hey buddy, come home with me? Well, that was he was like, All right, cool.
SPEAKER_01So that was part of it. That was part of the other problem. They did not, they had handlers and stuff, but Roy's thing was they went off intuition and they weren't trained like like lions at the zoo, and which attack people too.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_01And so it was more of a like they slept in the bed with them, and that's crazy. I it's insane. I mean, tiny cats. I have two, and I look at my cat and I'm like, You would kill me right now if you could. Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Like my little three-pound Roxy the other day. Oh my gosh, I was at the kitchen counter, like fixing food, and she leapt and put both front feet into my right butt cheek and literally hung there. I was screaming, like, and I don't know how to get her. Like she's behind me, and oh, she finally just fell. It was so painful.
SPEAKER_01That's what I'm saying. So painful. Cats are murderous animals. They are. They uh at any size. They're built to kill. They are at any size. We have never bred that out of them. Nope. Like dogs, like, but cats are murder machines and they don't care who you are, they don't care that you've been feeding when you stop feeding them. I mean, for God's sakes, if their bowl is half empty, they're like, You should fall asleep, see what happens. I'm gonna take your nose right off your face. They don't care, yeah. They will kill you. So 400 pounds of that really has an attitude and they know how to use it. But yes, all kidding aside, it was very sad, and I do feel bad for it. But he did survive, and it he did survive, and it is was probably very heartbreaking for someone who has been sleeping with these cats to think that one of them just tried to take me out, and it was probably a blessing in disguise, like they've been doing it a long time.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and when you do it for that long, something bad's gonna happen, so you didn't die. So maybe nobody in your audience. Nobody in your audience died.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's probably better that it attacked you and not, you know, a little kid. Yeah. I did see them.
SPEAKER_03Live?
SPEAKER_01Not live. I did not see the I saw the cats because I've been to them, I was at the Mirage. They had them. Um, I was there my first time in Vegas was like 2001. And I went to the Mirage and I I didn't go see Sigford anywhere, but they have their cats in there, and you could go and see the cats. I had seen the cats. I have seen the murderess. Were they cross-eyed? No, okay, they were just regular because they probably put the cross-eyed ones down.
Little Bavaria After They’re Gone
SPEAKER_01Siegfried and Roy lived in a sprawling estate known as Little Bavaria. The property featured multiple homes, lush gardens, and habitats for their animals. Also, this part of their relationship seemed to me like probably the reason why they made it so long. They had separate houses. That's what Helena Bonham Carter and Tim Burton had separate houses. They were right next to each other. I mean, they did get divorced, but I mean, because they said that they deck they they decorated differently. So one had one house and one had the other house. Roy also had his mom lived there with them, and he built her an aviary because she liked birds. So Wow. Yeah. Um, multiple residential buildings, extensive gardens and walking paths, custom-built animal habitats, training facilities, a private lake, a Bavarian-style lodge, underground tunnels, and staff housing. The estate was both a home and a sanctuary. After uh Roy died May 8th, 2020, and Siegfried died January 13th, 2021. Little Bavaria underwent reconstruction. Some parts have been preserved as memorials, others have been repurposed. The full extent of the reconstruction remains private. Supposedly they're reopening it this year. So what happened was when they died, well, obviously Roy died first in May of 2020, and then Siegfried had a rapid cancer. Yeah, so who was probably fighting it and then just let go. Um apparently because they didn't have, I don't know if it's because they didn't have any heirs or what if it was in probate or whatever, but the estate went into complete and they had squatters live in there, and it was apparently like bad. And somebody who has recently, last year, I think it was 2024, 2025, had decided that they were gonna re redo it, turn it back to the way it was, and open it as a museum. Yeah. And there's apparently they had a stage in there, so they're gonna, they have, they're gonna, their plan is to have like live bands and open it up as like a as a performance place for small artists. And um yeah, so like they said, you know, Las Vegas doesn't hold on to any sentimental they just knocked them casinos down and built something else up. They don't care about their past, except for the neon graveyard. But I think that's more of a a recent thing where they've started embracing their past. I think prior to that they were like, knock that shit down and put something else up. So it is nice that they have decided to um put it back to the way it was. Right. Siegfried and Roy were central to the Mirage's identity. Their show helped define the era of mega resorts. Steve Wynne's vision transformed the strip. The Mirage's success paved the way for Bellagio, Treasure Island, and other mega resorts. After the mauling, the Mirage shifted its focus. MGM acquired the resort. The area, the era of big cat acts faded. Uh, the Mirage is now undergoing redevelopment, and its future remains uncertain.
Vegas Nostalgia Meets New Price Tags
SPEAKER_01So I remember seeing the volcano at the Mirage erupt. Um, I guess when I got to Las Vegas was the heyday of these mega resa resort because I they were building Mandalay Bay the first time I went. The Luxor was built and I stayed at the Excalibur because it was cheaper and they're all connected by the law.
SPEAKER_03You always stayed at the Excalibur.
SPEAKER_01Fucking love the Excalibur. I don't care.
SPEAKER_03I stayed at the Excalibur with it.
SPEAKER_01It's a fucking okay. It is a hotel room. Yes, it's a fine is it outdated? Yes. Is it dirty? No. It's it's fine. It's an outdated that back then literally cost $25 a night. Yeah. You were hooked to the Luxer, which was like $80 a night. Then Mandalay Bay was like $115 a night. Why in the hell? For a room that you're just gonna close your eyes and take a shower in, would you not stay at the cheapest resort? Exactly.
SPEAKER_03Exactly.
SPEAKER_01And they had the medieval times thing. Man, I I don't care. I love the Excalibur. I don't I don't even know if it's open still. Last time I went, we stayed at the New York, New York.
SPEAKER_03I feel like the last time I was there, which was old am I? How old is my sister? Seven years ago. Um I think it was still open. I think it is still open. Back then, and I think was the volcano still there? Yeah. I feel like I've seen the volcano every time I was there. I think that they still had it.
SPEAKER_01Um hold on. I'm gonna see how much it costs for a room. Okay. So I looked it up. The cheapest room for tonight, which is August.
SPEAKER_03Okay, yeah. I don't know why. Well, people, August is the off season because it's hot as fuck out there.
SPEAKER_01I went in August and it was god awful.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um the average for tonight, which is a Wednesday, and tomorrow tonight, two nights, $97. But wait, that's the cheapest. They have uh um a luxury suite for $432 a night.
SPEAKER_03What? At the X Cali here?
SPEAKER_01They have a two-bedroom luxury suite for $512 a night, and they have a two-bedroom suite for $560 a night. That's crazy. I know. So I guess I won't be going to Las Vegas anytime soon.
SPEAKER_03We'll stay at we'll go and we'll stay at like Circus Circus.
SPEAKER_01That's the same caliber. I mean, you are right on the street.
SPEAKER_03Well, that's the thing with Circus Circus, though. It's way, way down there.
SPEAKER_01That's the thing I liked about the X caliber because it was so cheap and it's that's in the middle. It's it's at that end of the it's at that end, but you're within. You can walk to everything, and it's the quieter end, so you can walk. MGM is right across the street, which it's owned by MGM now. Um, MGM is right, the MM store is right across. Right, I was gonna say the MM store. Everything, of course. That's what I remember. Yes, okay. It is a pretty spectacular. God, I want to go back to Vegas. So bad. Me too. But not that kind of price. I would never be able to gamble. Right? That's insane. $500 for the city. I remember when you used to give free rooms to like scout. Yeah, I did. Well, no, I didn't I got free rooms at Bally's. Yeah. Let me tell you what they do at the free rooms at Bally's. Because I went to Vegas a lot. Because it was cheaper to go to Vegas for five fucking days than it was to go to Atlantic City overnight when I drove my goddamn self. It was cheaper to get in an airplane for five days. And I'm not kidding about that. No, um, so I would it was funny because I had um a night a day off, which in the summer was not a thing back then for me. But we had some one of our kids that worked for us forever had graduated, so he came early. And he gave us all an unexpected day off during the week. So I had two days off in a row. He gave us two days off in a row, and it was the day before the day off, and my dad, who is the reason you love Vegas, yes, and is a hundred percent the person that does this kind of thing, uh-huh, said, What are you doing on your day off tomorrow? And I was like, I don't know. I was thinking about going to Atlantic City, and he said, Why would you go to Atlantic City? Why don't you go to Vegas? And I was like, You're crazy. And then I was like, Where are you? And so this was the days before really the internet was big. So I called the airline and they had uh the last flight out of Philadelphia that evening was like $110 for a round trip. I called Bally's and they said you absolutely can have a free room for two nights. And I was like, All right. So I came back and told my dad I have it will cost me $110 plus whatever it costs to park in Philadelphia to go, but I need to leave right now. And he turned and looked at me and he said, See you in two days. And so I ran home, took my backpack, shoved jersey knit dresses because they don't wrinkle, two of them, in my bag, and I drove to Philadelphia, hopped on an airplane and went to Vegas for two days, took the red eye home, had Tuesday and Wednesday off, took the flight out Monday, took Tuesday and Wednesday, took the red eye Wednesday night home, arrived in Philadelphia at 5 a.m. and drove and was at work before eight. I love it. I was tired, and I am not that child anymore. Yeah, but you were young, so I was young and dumb, and I gambled the whole time, and I only ate. I would go to the buffet in the morning and shove food in my bag.
SPEAKER_03You taught me that.
SPEAKER_01That's smart. It's like eight dollar breakfast buffet. Eight bucks fed you for the day.
SPEAKER_03Well, when we went, we went to the dinner buffet, and it was buy one, get one free. Ah. And then we would shove breakfast foods in our bag.
unknownSmart. It's smart.
SPEAKER_03So I think it was like 25 bucks for two of us to eat there, but we got four meals out of it. So yeah.
SPEAKER_01Those are the days. You can't do that shit anymore. Hell no. Man. Yeah. Yeah. I haven't done that. I couldn't do that now if you paid me.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. It takes me. Oh gosh. I don't even know. I there's no way. I mean, and I've been traveling more than ever, and I'm very comfortable with it, but that's way too much. Too fast.
SPEAKER_01It's so weird too because I hate crowds. Like I am not, I like to plan things out in advance. But for whatever reason, Las Vegas, I am a whole different human being when I go to Las Vegas. I don't know what it is. I don't know what makes I don't, I just love it so much. I just adore Las Vegas and I don't know why. It's like grown up Disney. I'm a Disney, I'm a Disney adult. Yeah. And it's grown up Disney.
SPEAKER_03It is. It really is.
SPEAKER_01Not anymore, though, I think. Well, now I can't go because I don't have $500 to spend. That's all my gambling money.
SPEAKER_03Well, now the Disney part is on Fremont Street. Like that place is wild now. It is wild.
SPEAKER_01I went. I've been to Fremont Street a couple times. I don't care for it. Um because I like the old I mean I like the I like Binions and I like all that and that kind of stuff. I liked looking at the million dollars for the world poker. But I just like the I don't know. I don't know. Yeah. I just love Las Vegas so much.
SPEAKER_03Freeman Street is fun for a night. Yeah. Like my sister and I did it for one night. We got absolutely shitfaced. Yeah. We made so many friends. Yeah. Danced and sang because there's bands everywhere. There's lights. There's people flying over you on ziplines. Yeah. There's women with no clothes on. Yeah. There's men with no clothes on. There's just everything. Everybody. Everything. It's just wild. It's very hot. It is. It's very, very, it was very fun for a night, but it's like a great memory. It's not like I'm like, man, I can't wait to go back to Fremont Street.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I don't think I I don't I would never need to go back to Fremont Street. Yeah. And then every year I would go, I would go in December. Well, when I was going quite a bit, I would go in October and December. But December, the week before Christmas, greatest time in Las Vegas. It's not hot. It's actually chilly at night, but it's nice during the day. There's literally nobody there. So the rooms prepped in for the holidays. The rooms are like 20 bucks. They don't decorate for Christmas. So there's no Christmas garbage.
SPEAKER_03Non-denomination.
SPEAKER_01There's no, I mean, there's a little bit here and there, but it's not like the mall is a little bit decorated, but even the mall wasn't like those were the days. Those days are gone. Those days are gone. I have to tell myself that all the time. I know, but they are. I mean, I can't do that. I can't do that shit no more. I can't just hop in a plane for two days. The maulings sparked debate about animal acts. The USDA increased scrutiny. Many venues phased out big cat performances. White tiger breeding became controversial. Zeus stopped breeding them. Conservationists raised concerns. Siegfried and Roy's legacy in animal entertainment is complex. Siegfried and Roy never publicly defined their relationship in an era when homosexuality was stigmatized. They maintained privacy. Their partnership challenged traditional notions of masculinity and performance. Their sexuality is now discussed openly in legacy conservation conversations. I mean hindsight now, you feel like how I mean.
Rapid Fire Facts Then Goodbye
SPEAKER_01Royce Cheetah Cheek Cheetah Chico once rode in a taxi. That doesn't surprise me. Their first tiger.
SPEAKER_03He probably did it by himself. Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_01Their first tiger was Sabrina, named Sabrina. Siegfried learned magic from a library book. He never returned. Chico escaped. Oh, their tigers had their own swimming pool. Little Bavaria had underground tunnels. They appeared in a Muppet special.
SPEAKER_03Doesn't surprise me.
SPEAKER_01Michael Jackson wrote them a theme song.
SPEAKER_03Oh well.
SPEAKER_01They owned over 50 exotic animals.
SPEAKER_03Oh, well, Michael Jackson loved exotic animals too.
SPEAKER_01That's probably where he got them.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01The Mirage Volcano was partly inspired by their show. Ooh. Their animals had custom-made footwear. Roy hand right now I'm jealous. Roy Hand sewed some early costumes. Their tigers all had stage names.
SPEAKER_03Little Bavaria. Oh, wait. So did they have regular names and then they had stage names? That's adorable. I love it. So that if somebody saw them in public, they wouldn't know their name. Okay, gotcha.
SPEAKER_01The little well, I mean, if you're calling Manticore and he comes, like he's coming at you. Little Bavaria had a tiger kindergarten. They filmed a never-released documentary. Siegfried said magic gave him control over chaos. Roy believed Animal Has Souls. I also believe that. Their show was the most expensive in Vegas history.
SPEAKER_03Wow.
SPEAKER_01They once had a lion living in their kitchen. Their cats recognized them by scent. Little Bavaria had a private beer hall. They celebrated every animal's birthday. They were the first magicians to headline a mega resort. Their tigers had masseuses. I still want the custom footwear. They funded genetic research. Roy spoke to animals in German. Their costumes used Sawarski crystals. They had a private chef for the animals. Their tigers traveled in custom air-conditioned trailers. Don't tigers just eat raw meat? Probably. Alright. The owner, they owned a liger named Hercules. A liger? It's a tiger and a lion mix.
SPEAKER_03Is that a real thing? Yeah, actually, it is a real thing.
SPEAKER_01No, I mean it is like a white tiger thing because it is not actually. They don't do it in the wild. No, but they do. I don't think they live in the same places. So it's like artificial. Artificial.
SPEAKER_03Okay, gotcha.
SPEAKER_01Their show used over 300 pyrotechnical cues. Siegfried preferred silence backstage. Roy preferred loud music backstage. How you work that out, I'm right. They lived in different homes. Their cats had custom diets. They run once performed for royalty in Monaco. And when they did that, um, what's her name? Princess Grace was there, and that's when one of the cheetah uh Chico got out and was walking amongst the crowd. Also, one time Chico got out at when Liz Taylor was there. They had a private chapel at Little Bavaria. Their tigers had heated floors. Damn.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01They owned a private island retreat. Their cats had personal veterinarians. Siegfried collected rare orchids. Roy collected antique swords. Their show used 27 tons of scenery. Wow. They had a tiger named Magic. Their cats had custom toys. They had a private gym for animal conditioning. Their tigers were trained to respond to whistles. They owned a leopard named Apollo. Their cats had their own holiday celebrations. They kept handwritten journals about every animal. Their tigers had custom grooming routines. They rescued a lion cub from a circus. Their cats had custom-built playgrounds. They had a private costume vault. Their tigers had their own music playlists. They owned a rare white lion named Pasha.
SPEAKER_03What? That sounds like some bullshit to me.
SPEAKER_01Their cats had custom-made beds. They had a private meditation garden. Their tigers were trained to recognize hand signals. They once performed for the Pope. Their cats had custom winter coats. They had a cheetah named Spirit as long as well as Chico. Their tigers had their own spa. They had private screening rooms. The cats had custom water fountains. They owned a pat a panther named Shadow. Which, of course, it's named Shadow. The tigers had custom exercise routines. They had a private art gallery. They had custom collars, of course. They owned another white lion named Majesty. They had custom lighting in their habitat. I have never seen a white lion. Alright, this is blowing my mind. They had a private wine cellar, of course. Custom feeding. Their tigers had enrichment programs. They had a private library. They had custom grooming brushes. They owned a lion named Regal. They had their own cooling systems. They had a private music studio. They were so wealthy. They had a cheetah named Flash. That's not very creative. It's as good as Shadow. They had climbing structures, a private photography studio. They owned a Panther named Nightfall. Come on, Roman. They had a private greenhouse. They owned a lion named Thunder. They ended a leopard named Whisper. They had a sculpture garden, custom hydration station. They had a white tiger named Glacier. Come on, Roy. Their tigers had custom sunbathing areas, and they had a private ballroom. So that are my that is my short but sweet.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that that was really, really fun. I just don't know how people work with tigers. I just don't like that. It's absolutely terrible. I have YouTube TV, and sometimes instead of a commercial, they'll give you a moment of Zen. Yes. You've seen it. Yes. One of the newer moments of Zen is I think it's a lion, actually. I think it's a female lion. But anyway, walking, and there's a little, I mean, it's hot and deserty, so there's, but there's just little sticks, and she's just kind of walking through and the sun's coming down. It does not relax me. It there's nothing relaxing about watching, and sometimes she like low growls, and I'm just like, no, thank you.
SPEAKER_01No, that's because you know what a small cat is capable of.
SPEAKER_03Exactly. I mean, just look at me. I'm coated in scratches.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, they will rip your throat out. Yeah. I mean, cats will eat you when you die. Oh, yeah. They will eat you. Absolutely. Dogs will just lay down and die next to you. Yes. Because they're good boys. Cats are just waiting for you to die. Yeah. Absolutely. That's why they sleep so close. That's why they sleep on you. They're trying to kill you. Yeah. Trying to suffocate you. Yes, they do. Mine does constantly.
SPEAKER_03My one cat, she's super mad at me for bringing Roxy into the house. And she's just started coming like back around. And um she was just biting the shit out of me last night. Yeah. I was like, Are you trying to eat my fingers? Like, she's a biter anyway. That's how she shows affection. Yeah, I have both mine do that. But hers was, but she's more kind of pissed off. I think it was much more like she doesn't break the skin or anything.
SPEAKER_01Nodis bites me on the top of my head. He's pretending to snuggle. And he's like smelling my head. And then I'm like, don't you do it, don't you do it? And then he just like chomps right down on my head. He's trying to eat my brain. He's trying to tip of my nose. Or he's trying to save me from a stroke. I'm not sure which. I'm pretty sure I do know which. I don't think I'm having a stroke. So yeah, that's Siegfried and Roy.
SPEAKER_03That was super fun. Thank you.
SPEAKER_01I thought about it and I was like, you know what? That's a fascinating. Yeah. That's pretty cool.
SPEAKER_03And it was definitely a big part of our childhood. It really was. It was something else. Like, yeah. Remember all the time.
SPEAKER_01And when I went to Vegas, I was like, damn, I should really see Siegfried.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, they were on TV a lot.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Fun stuff.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Anyway, thanks for listening. Now that I said it was short, but it wasn't. Well, we did talk a lot. That's true. Um, thank you for listening. Thank you. You can like, share, rate, review, please. Please, and thank you. Um we have a website, likewhateverpodum.com. We have you can find us anywhere that you find the podcasteries. You can find us on all the socials at Like Whatever Pod.
unknownOh boy.
SPEAKER_01You can send us an email about what you would name a white tiger that isn't Glacier. I mean, Manticore is a good name. Manticore is a great name. Yeah, but not Glacier. Come on. Two likewhateverpod at gmail.com or don't like whatever. Whatever. Bye.
